Yesterday afternoon, during the flight from Santiago de Cuba to Washington, DC, Pope Francis met with journalists on board the plane and held a press conference.
Father Lombardi
Holy Father, thank you for being here with us during this connecting flight: so that we can have a conversation with you and reflect a little on this first stage of the trip to Cuba, which was beautiful but also challenging.
We have a list of a few of our colleagues who have prepared some questions. The questions will be asked in Spanish and in Italian. We ask you to answer our Cuban friend, who will be the first to ask a question, in Spanish; then others have asked that if possible you answer in Italian, so that in general, they will be able to better understand your responses.
The first question is from our friend Rosa Miriam Elizalde, who is from Cubadebate:
Rosa Miriam Elizalde
Thank you. Holy Father, it has truly been an honour and a pleasure to accompany you on this trip, and also a great joy. I believe that my question is a bit predictable: I would love to know your thoughts on the embargo between the United States and Cuba and whether you will speak about this before the United States Congress.
Pope Francis
The question of the embargo is part of the negotiation. This is public: both Presidents have referred to it. So it is something public, which is going in the direction of good relations which are being sought. My wish is that they will achieve good results in this matter, that they are able to reach an agreement that is satisfactory to both parties. An agreement, certainly. Compared with the position of the Holy See regarding los bloqueos (embargos), the preceding Popes spoke about them, not only in this case, but also in other cases of bloqueo (embargo). There is a social doctrine of the Church in this regard and I refer to it, for it is precise and just. Regarding the United States Congress - the speech is written, but I cannot share it! - I am thinking about what I want to say about that: but not in a specific manner on this theme, in general on the themes of bilateral and multi-lateral agreements, as signs of progress in living together. However, the concrete theme - I'm speaking from memory, I don't want to say stupid things - is not mentioned, almost certainly, no.
Father Lombardi
Now, we give the microphone to another Rosa: we have begun with two women who both are named Rosa: this is a good sign. Rosa Flores from CNN: we give her the microphone. Can you speak in Italian, possibly? Or in Spanish ... the Pope will reply in Italian:
Rosa Flores
Holy Father, good afternoon. I am Rosa Flores from CNN. We heard that more than 50 dissidents were arrested outside the Nunciature because they were trying to have a meeting with you. The first question is: Would you like to encounter dissidents? And if such a meeting should take place, what would you say to them?
Pope Francis
First of all, I have not heard that this has happened - I have not received any news. Someone might say: yes, no, I don't know ... Surely, I do not know. Your two questions are futuristic ... I would like it to happen. I like to meet all kinds of people. First of all because I believe that all people are children of God, by right. Secondly, meetings with every person are always enriching. Yes, I would like to meet with them. If you still want to speak about dissidents, I can tell you something very concrete. First of all, it was very clear that I have not granted any audiences, because not only dissidents asked for an audience, but also other people, including various Heads of State. No, I am visiting in the country, and that's all. No audiences were planned: either with dissidents, or with anyone else. Second, from the Nunciature, some calls were made to a few people, who are part of this group of dissidents ... the task of the Nunciature was to communicate to them that I would be happy, upon my arrival at the Cathedral, to meet with consecrated persons, to greet them if they were there. A greeting. This, yes, it's true ... But since no one came to meet me, I don't know if they were there or not. I greeted all those who were there. Above all, I greeted the sick, those who were seated in wheelchairs ... but no one identified him or herself as a dissident. From the Nunciature, a few calls were made, inviting them to a passing greeting ...
Rosa Flores
But what would you say ...
Pope Francis
I don't know what I would say to them ... I would say something beautiful to all the world, but what exactly would be said, depends on the moment.
Father Lombardi
Now, we have Silvia Poggioli, from the National Public Radio in the United States, which is a large radio station in the United States.
Silvia Poggioli
Excuse me, I want to ask you: in the decades during which Fidel Castro was in power, the Cuban Catholic Church suffered greatly. In your meeting with Fidel, did you have the perception that he was perhaps a little sorry?
Pope Francis
Repentance is a very intimate matter, a matter of conscience. In my meeting with Fidel, I spoke about some well-known Jesuit history, because I brought him a gift, a book by Father Llorente, one of his good friends, a Jesuit, and also a CD with the conference given by Father Llorente; and I also presented him with two books by Father Pronzato which I am sure he appreciated. We spoke about these things. We spoke a lot about the encyclical Laudato si', because he is very interested in the them of ecology. It was not a very formal meeting, but a spontaneous one; his family members were also present, as were the members of my team, my driver; but we were a bit separated, with his wife and him. The others couldn't hear, but they were also there. We spoke about these things. Much about the encyclical, because he is very preoccupied by it. We did not speak about the past. Yes, the past: the Jesuit college, how the Jesuits were, how they worked, about these things, yes.
Father Lombardi
Now, we give the microphone to Gian Guido Vecchi, who I believe you know, from Corriere della Sera, an Italian.
Gian Guido Vecchi
Your Holiness, your reflections, and your complaints, about the sin of worldwide economic systems, the risk of self-destruction of the planet, trafficking of arms ... are also discomforting complaints, in the sense that they arouse very strong interests. In the days leading up to this trip, certain very bizarre concerns have surfaced - also some important media throughout the world have taken note - about certain sectors of American society, and there were also some who wondered about whether the Pope was truly Catholic ... There used to be discussions by some who spoke of a communist Pope; even now: Is the Pope Catholic? What do you think about these questions?
Pope Francis
One of my Cardinal friends told me that a woman came to him, very preoccupied: very Catholic, a bit rigid. The woman, a good, good Catholic, asked him if it was true that in the Bible there is talk about an antichrist. He explained it to her. The antichrist is spoken of in the book of Revelations, no? Then, is it true that the bible also speaks of an antipope ... But why do you ask such questions?, the Cardinal asked. Because I'm sure that Pope Francis is the antipope. Why? - he asked - Because he has this idea? Ah, because he doesn't use the ruby slippers! They are part of the history ... Reasons for thinking that someone is a communist or not ... I am certain that I have not said anything else that is not in the social doctrine of the Church. On another flight (the return flight from the trip to Latin America), one of your colleagues - I don't know if the person is here, you can correct me - told me, when I wanted to speak about popular Movements, I was told: You reached out to this popular Movement - more or less, this was how it was - but does the Church follow such Movements? And I said: It's up to me to follow the Church, and in this matter, I think I am not wrong, I believe that I have not said anything that is not part of the social doctrine of the Church. Things can be explained. Perhaps an explanation gave the impression of being a little bit more sinister, but that would be an error in explanation. No. My doctrine, on all of this, in Laudato si', concerning economic imperialism and all that, is the social doctrine of the Church. If I need to recite the Credo, I am willing to do it!
Father Lombardi
Let us give the microphone to Jean-Louis de la Vaissière, who is from the France Presse agency.
Jean-Louis de la Vaissière
Good afternoon, Holy Father. Thank you for this trip: it is very interesting. In your last trip to Latin America, you harshly criticized the liberal capitalistic system. In Cuba, it seems that your criteria for the communist system were not so severe: they were very soft. Why the difference?
Pope Francis
In the speeches I gave in Cuba, I always put the accent on the Social Doctrine of the Church. I spoke clearly about things that need to be corrected, not in a perfumed way, soft, but also looking toward the first part of the question: more than what I wrote more harshly, what I wrote in the Encyclical, and also in Evangelii gaudium, about uncontrolled or liberal capitalism, I did not say: everything is written there. I do not remember having said anything like that. I don't know, if you remember, remind me. I said what I wrote, that's enough! Enough, enough. And then, it's almost the same thing that I said to your colleague: all of this is in the Doctrine. But here in Cuba - perhaps this will clarify your question a bit - the trip was a very pastoral one with the Catholic community, with Christians, and with people of good will and for this reason, my speeches were spoken as homilies ... Even with the youth - who were believing and non-believing youth, and among the believing ones, there were differing religions - there was a hopeful conversation, even encouraging dialogue among them, calling them to go forward together, to seek the things that they have in common, not the things that divide them, to build bridges ... It was a more pastoral language. However, in the Encyclical we should treat things more technically, even the things that you have mentioned. But if you remember something that I have said during the other voyage, something strong, tell me because truly I don't remember.
Father Lombardi
Now, we give the microphone to one of our old friends, Nelson Castro, from Radio Continental. He is from Argentina.
Pope Francis
... he is a good doctor ...
Nelson Castro
Good afternoon, Holy Father. My question returns to the theme of dissidence, in two ways: why did you decide not to receive the dissidents? And secondly, there was one who came close to you and then he was dismissed and arrested. My question is: will there be a role for the Catholic Church to play in the process of seeking openness to political freedom, given the role that she has already played in the re-establishment of relations between Cuba and the United States? This theme of liberty, which is a problem for those who think differently in Cuba. Does the Holy See think that there is a role for the Catholic Church to play in the future of Cuba?
Pope Francis
First: they; not to receive them. I did not receive anyone in private audience. This is true for everyone. There was also a Head of State who had asked ... I tell you, no, I had nothing to do with dissidents. The behaviour with the dissidents was that which I have already explained. The Church here, the Church in Cuba has worked on a list of prisoners who might be granted a pardon ... Pardons were granted to about 3,500 ... The President of the Episcopal Conference told me the number: yes, more than 3,000. There are other cases being studied. And the Church here in Cuba is working on the pardons. For example, someone told me: It would be good to finish it with a life sentence or life imprisonment. Clearly speaking, a life sentence is almost a penalty of a hidden death. This I have said publicly in a speech to the European jurists. You are there, dying every day without even a hope of liberation. This is a hypothesis. Another hypothesis is that there might be general pardons every one or two years ... But the Church is working on it, has been working ... I am not saying that these other 3,000 were freed from the Church's list, no. The Church has made a list - I don't know how many people - has officially asked for pardons and will continue to do so.
Father Lombardi
The last on our list for this conference is Rogelio Mora, from Telemundo.
Rogelio Mora
Holy Father, a doctor visits a sick person, not a healthy one. In less than 20 years, three Popes have visited Cuba. Is Cuba sick?
Pope Francis
I don't understand the question.
Rogelio Mora
Whether the visit of three Popes in less than 20 years to the Island of Cuba can be interpreted as an indication that there is a sickness on the Island, that the Island is suffering for some reason ...
Pope Francis
Now I understand ... No, no. The first was John Paul II: the first historic visit. But that was normal: he visited many countries, including countries that were aggressive against the Church. The second was Pope Benedict: well, that was part of the norm ... And my visit was a little casual, because I was thinking about entering the States by passing through Mexico; at first, the first thought was Juarez City, the border with Mexico ... But to go to Mexico without visiting the Guadalupana (the Madonna of Guadalupe would have been a disaster! But that is in the past ... After, with the announcement that was made on December 17 of last year, when the plan that had been more or less worked out was announced, some work that had taken almost a year ... Then I said: I want to go to the United States via Cuba. This was the reason for the choice. However, it was not because there was some special problem that doesn't exist in other countries. I wouldn't interpret the three visits in this way. There are many countries which the two preceding Popes have visited; even I have visited a few: for example Brazil - John Paul II visited there three or four times and that country didn't have a particular problem. I am happy that I was able to meet the Cuban people, the Christian community in Cuba. Today, the meeting with families was very beautiful. It was beautiful.
Thank you for the work that lies ahead, it will be challenging, because there are three cities ... There were 24 speeches, and in Cuba I didn't even do eight ... Thank you very much for your work. Please pray for me!
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much, Your Holiness, truly. And congratulations, for if we have work to do, you have even more work to do than we do. Accept our good wishes and we will continue to work with you as communicators so that what you have to say can truly help all of humanity to seek peace, like you said at the beginning. Thank you.
Transcription of the press conference
held aboard the flight
from Santiago (Cuba) to Washington, DC
Father Lombardi
Holy Father, thank you for being here with us during this connecting flight: so that we can have a conversation with you and reflect a little on this first stage of the trip to Cuba, which was beautiful but also challenging.
We have a list of a few of our colleagues who have prepared some questions. The questions will be asked in Spanish and in Italian. We ask you to answer our Cuban friend, who will be the first to ask a question, in Spanish; then others have asked that if possible you answer in Italian, so that in general, they will be able to better understand your responses.
The first question is from our friend Rosa Miriam Elizalde, who is from Cubadebate:
Rosa Miriam Elizalde
Thank you. Holy Father, it has truly been an honour and a pleasure to accompany you on this trip, and also a great joy. I believe that my question is a bit predictable: I would love to know your thoughts on the embargo between the United States and Cuba and whether you will speak about this before the United States Congress.
Pope Francis
The question of the embargo is part of the negotiation. This is public: both Presidents have referred to it. So it is something public, which is going in the direction of good relations which are being sought. My wish is that they will achieve good results in this matter, that they are able to reach an agreement that is satisfactory to both parties. An agreement, certainly. Compared with the position of the Holy See regarding los bloqueos (embargos), the preceding Popes spoke about them, not only in this case, but also in other cases of bloqueo (embargo). There is a social doctrine of the Church in this regard and I refer to it, for it is precise and just. Regarding the United States Congress - the speech is written, but I cannot share it! - I am thinking about what I want to say about that: but not in a specific manner on this theme, in general on the themes of bilateral and multi-lateral agreements, as signs of progress in living together. However, the concrete theme - I'm speaking from memory, I don't want to say stupid things - is not mentioned, almost certainly, no.
Father Lombardi
Now, we give the microphone to another Rosa: we have begun with two women who both are named Rosa: this is a good sign. Rosa Flores from CNN: we give her the microphone. Can you speak in Italian, possibly? Or in Spanish ... the Pope will reply in Italian:
Rosa Flores
Holy Father, good afternoon. I am Rosa Flores from CNN. We heard that more than 50 dissidents were arrested outside the Nunciature because they were trying to have a meeting with you. The first question is: Would you like to encounter dissidents? And if such a meeting should take place, what would you say to them?
Pope Francis
First of all, I have not heard that this has happened - I have not received any news. Someone might say: yes, no, I don't know ... Surely, I do not know. Your two questions are futuristic ... I would like it to happen. I like to meet all kinds of people. First of all because I believe that all people are children of God, by right. Secondly, meetings with every person are always enriching. Yes, I would like to meet with them. If you still want to speak about dissidents, I can tell you something very concrete. First of all, it was very clear that I have not granted any audiences, because not only dissidents asked for an audience, but also other people, including various Heads of State. No, I am visiting in the country, and that's all. No audiences were planned: either with dissidents, or with anyone else. Second, from the Nunciature, some calls were made to a few people, who are part of this group of dissidents ... the task of the Nunciature was to communicate to them that I would be happy, upon my arrival at the Cathedral, to meet with consecrated persons, to greet them if they were there. A greeting. This, yes, it's true ... But since no one came to meet me, I don't know if they were there or not. I greeted all those who were there. Above all, I greeted the sick, those who were seated in wheelchairs ... but no one identified him or herself as a dissident. From the Nunciature, a few calls were made, inviting them to a passing greeting ...
Rosa Flores
But what would you say ...
Pope Francis
I don't know what I would say to them ... I would say something beautiful to all the world, but what exactly would be said, depends on the moment.
Father Lombardi
Now, we have Silvia Poggioli, from the National Public Radio in the United States, which is a large radio station in the United States.
Silvia Poggioli
Excuse me, I want to ask you: in the decades during which Fidel Castro was in power, the Cuban Catholic Church suffered greatly. In your meeting with Fidel, did you have the perception that he was perhaps a little sorry?
Pope Francis
Repentance is a very intimate matter, a matter of conscience. In my meeting with Fidel, I spoke about some well-known Jesuit history, because I brought him a gift, a book by Father Llorente, one of his good friends, a Jesuit, and also a CD with the conference given by Father Llorente; and I also presented him with two books by Father Pronzato which I am sure he appreciated. We spoke about these things. We spoke a lot about the encyclical Laudato si', because he is very interested in the them of ecology. It was not a very formal meeting, but a spontaneous one; his family members were also present, as were the members of my team, my driver; but we were a bit separated, with his wife and him. The others couldn't hear, but they were also there. We spoke about these things. Much about the encyclical, because he is very preoccupied by it. We did not speak about the past. Yes, the past: the Jesuit college, how the Jesuits were, how they worked, about these things, yes.
Father Lombardi
Now, we give the microphone to Gian Guido Vecchi, who I believe you know, from Corriere della Sera, an Italian.
Gian Guido Vecchi
Your Holiness, your reflections, and your complaints, about the sin of worldwide economic systems, the risk of self-destruction of the planet, trafficking of arms ... are also discomforting complaints, in the sense that they arouse very strong interests. In the days leading up to this trip, certain very bizarre concerns have surfaced - also some important media throughout the world have taken note - about certain sectors of American society, and there were also some who wondered about whether the Pope was truly Catholic ... There used to be discussions by some who spoke of a communist Pope; even now: Is the Pope Catholic? What do you think about these questions?
Pope Francis
One of my Cardinal friends told me that a woman came to him, very preoccupied: very Catholic, a bit rigid. The woman, a good, good Catholic, asked him if it was true that in the Bible there is talk about an antichrist. He explained it to her. The antichrist is spoken of in the book of Revelations, no? Then, is it true that the bible also speaks of an antipope ... But why do you ask such questions?, the Cardinal asked. Because I'm sure that Pope Francis is the antipope. Why? - he asked - Because he has this idea? Ah, because he doesn't use the ruby slippers! They are part of the history ... Reasons for thinking that someone is a communist or not ... I am certain that I have not said anything else that is not in the social doctrine of the Church. On another flight (the return flight from the trip to Latin America), one of your colleagues - I don't know if the person is here, you can correct me - told me, when I wanted to speak about popular Movements, I was told: You reached out to this popular Movement - more or less, this was how it was - but does the Church follow such Movements? And I said: It's up to me to follow the Church, and in this matter, I think I am not wrong, I believe that I have not said anything that is not part of the social doctrine of the Church. Things can be explained. Perhaps an explanation gave the impression of being a little bit more sinister, but that would be an error in explanation. No. My doctrine, on all of this, in Laudato si', concerning economic imperialism and all that, is the social doctrine of the Church. If I need to recite the Credo, I am willing to do it!
Father Lombardi
Let us give the microphone to Jean-Louis de la Vaissière, who is from the France Presse agency.
Jean-Louis de la Vaissière
Good afternoon, Holy Father. Thank you for this trip: it is very interesting. In your last trip to Latin America, you harshly criticized the liberal capitalistic system. In Cuba, it seems that your criteria for the communist system were not so severe: they were very soft. Why the difference?
Pope Francis
In the speeches I gave in Cuba, I always put the accent on the Social Doctrine of the Church. I spoke clearly about things that need to be corrected, not in a perfumed way, soft, but also looking toward the first part of the question: more than what I wrote more harshly, what I wrote in the Encyclical, and also in Evangelii gaudium, about uncontrolled or liberal capitalism, I did not say: everything is written there. I do not remember having said anything like that. I don't know, if you remember, remind me. I said what I wrote, that's enough! Enough, enough. And then, it's almost the same thing that I said to your colleague: all of this is in the Doctrine. But here in Cuba - perhaps this will clarify your question a bit - the trip was a very pastoral one with the Catholic community, with Christians, and with people of good will and for this reason, my speeches were spoken as homilies ... Even with the youth - who were believing and non-believing youth, and among the believing ones, there were differing religions - there was a hopeful conversation, even encouraging dialogue among them, calling them to go forward together, to seek the things that they have in common, not the things that divide them, to build bridges ... It was a more pastoral language. However, in the Encyclical we should treat things more technically, even the things that you have mentioned. But if you remember something that I have said during the other voyage, something strong, tell me because truly I don't remember.
Father Lombardi
Now, we give the microphone to one of our old friends, Nelson Castro, from Radio Continental. He is from Argentina.
Pope Francis
... he is a good doctor ...
Nelson Castro
Good afternoon, Holy Father. My question returns to the theme of dissidence, in two ways: why did you decide not to receive the dissidents? And secondly, there was one who came close to you and then he was dismissed and arrested. My question is: will there be a role for the Catholic Church to play in the process of seeking openness to political freedom, given the role that she has already played in the re-establishment of relations between Cuba and the United States? This theme of liberty, which is a problem for those who think differently in Cuba. Does the Holy See think that there is a role for the Catholic Church to play in the future of Cuba?
Pope Francis
First: they; not to receive them. I did not receive anyone in private audience. This is true for everyone. There was also a Head of State who had asked ... I tell you, no, I had nothing to do with dissidents. The behaviour with the dissidents was that which I have already explained. The Church here, the Church in Cuba has worked on a list of prisoners who might be granted a pardon ... Pardons were granted to about 3,500 ... The President of the Episcopal Conference told me the number: yes, more than 3,000. There are other cases being studied. And the Church here in Cuba is working on the pardons. For example, someone told me: It would be good to finish it with a life sentence or life imprisonment. Clearly speaking, a life sentence is almost a penalty of a hidden death. This I have said publicly in a speech to the European jurists. You are there, dying every day without even a hope of liberation. This is a hypothesis. Another hypothesis is that there might be general pardons every one or two years ... But the Church is working on it, has been working ... I am not saying that these other 3,000 were freed from the Church's list, no. The Church has made a list - I don't know how many people - has officially asked for pardons and will continue to do so.
Father Lombardi
The last on our list for this conference is Rogelio Mora, from Telemundo.
Rogelio Mora
Holy Father, a doctor visits a sick person, not a healthy one. In less than 20 years, three Popes have visited Cuba. Is Cuba sick?
Pope Francis
I don't understand the question.
Rogelio Mora
Whether the visit of three Popes in less than 20 years to the Island of Cuba can be interpreted as an indication that there is a sickness on the Island, that the Island is suffering for some reason ...
Pope Francis
Now I understand ... No, no. The first was John Paul II: the first historic visit. But that was normal: he visited many countries, including countries that were aggressive against the Church. The second was Pope Benedict: well, that was part of the norm ... And my visit was a little casual, because I was thinking about entering the States by passing through Mexico; at first, the first thought was Juarez City, the border with Mexico ... But to go to Mexico without visiting the Guadalupana (the Madonna of Guadalupe would have been a disaster! But that is in the past ... After, with the announcement that was made on December 17 of last year, when the plan that had been more or less worked out was announced, some work that had taken almost a year ... Then I said: I want to go to the United States via Cuba. This was the reason for the choice. However, it was not because there was some special problem that doesn't exist in other countries. I wouldn't interpret the three visits in this way. There are many countries which the two preceding Popes have visited; even I have visited a few: for example Brazil - John Paul II visited there three or four times and that country didn't have a particular problem. I am happy that I was able to meet the Cuban people, the Christian community in Cuba. Today, the meeting with families was very beautiful. It was beautiful.
Thank you for the work that lies ahead, it will be challenging, because there are three cities ... There were 24 speeches, and in Cuba I didn't even do eight ... Thank you very much for your work. Please pray for me!
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much, Your Holiness, truly. And congratulations, for if we have work to do, you have even more work to do than we do. Accept our good wishes and we will continue to work with you as communicators so that what you have to say can truly help all of humanity to seek peace, like you said at the beginning. Thank you.
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