Yesterday, during the flight from Tallin (Estonia) back to Rome at the conclusion of the Apostolic Voyage to Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia (22-25 September 2018), the Holy Father, Pope Francis met with journalists aboard the plane and held a Press Conference.
In-flight Press Conference of the Holy Father, Pope Francis
from Tallinn (Estonia) to Rome
Greg Burke
Good evening, Holy Father. Thank you, most of all. Three countries in four days is not easy; it is a bit tiring ... It seemed a bit like four countries in four days, because the first day, there was the surprise in China, and now we have also done this: we have drawn closer to China. Let us try to stay focused - we have said this many times - speak about the trip. We will certainly start with local journalists from every country, but let's try in the press conference to talk about the trip to the Baltic countries. I do not know if you want to say something before ...
Pope Francis
First of all, thank you for the work you have done, because for you too, three countries in four days is not easy. Above all, moving from one side to the other is tiring. Thank you so much for the service you are offering to people on this trip, which is the most important thing about your communication: what happened there ... There were very interesting things on this trip, and I expect the questions in this direction.
Greg Burke
Thank you. The first is Saulena Žiugždaite, Bernardinai.LT, from Lituania.
Saulena Žiugždaite
Bernardinai LT
Holy Father, thank you for this moment and for this journey. When you spoke in Vilnius about the Lithuanian soul, you said that we must be a bridge between East and West. But it is not easy to be a bridge: you are always crossed by others. Someone says that our tragedy is that we are on the bridge. Maybe someone might say:
It is definitely better to become part of the West with its values. What did you mean, what does it mean to be a bridge?
Pope Francis
It's true ... It's clear that you are today, politically, part of the West, of the European Union, and you have done so much to enter the European Union. After independence, you immediately made all the formalities, which are not easy, and you managed to enter the European Union, that is, a membership of the West. You also have relations with NATO: you belong to NATO, and this says the West. If you look at the East, there is your history: a difficult history. Even part of the tragic history came from the West, from the Germans, from the Poles, but especially from Nazism, this came from the West. And, as far as the East is concerned, from the Russian Empire.
Building bridges supposes, demands strength. Strength not only for belonging to the West, which gives you strength, but for your identity. I realize that the situation in the three Baltic countries is always in danger, always. The fear of invasion ... Because history itself reminds you of this. And you are right when you say it is not easy, but this is a game that is played every day, one step after another: with culture, with dialogue ... But it is not easy. I believe that it is our duty to help you with this: more than helping you, being close to you, with your heart.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holy Father. The next question comes from Gints Amolins, Latvijas Radio (Lettonia).
Gints Amolins
Latvijas Radio
Good evening, Holiness. In the Baltics, you have often spoken about the importance of roots and identity. From Latvia, and also from Lithuania and Estonia, there are many people who left for more prosperous countries and many are already taking root elsewhere. And then, there are also, as in Europe in general, demographic problems, due to the low birth rate. So, in this situation what can and should our countries do, the leaders of our countries and also each one personally? How should this problem be assessed?
Pope Francis
In my homeland, I did not know people from Estonia and Latvia, while Lithuanian immigration is very strong - in relative terms. There are many in Argentina. And they bring culture and history there, and they are proud of the two-pronged effort of entering the new country and also of preserving their identity. In their parties there are traditional clothes, traditional songs, and always, whenever they can, they come back to their homeland ... I think the struggle to keep their identity makes them very strong, and you have this: you have a strong identity. An identity that has been formed in suffering, in defence and in work, in culture.
And what can be done to defend your identity? Recourse to your roots, this is important. Identity is an ancient thing, but that must be transmitted. Identity is part of belonging to a people, and belonging to a people must be passed on. Roots are passed on to new generations, and this is done with education and dialogue, especially between the elderly and the young. And you must do it, because your identity is a treasure. Every identity is a treasure, but conceived as belonging to a people. This is what comes to me, I do not know if it corresponds to your question ...
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holy Father. And now, Evelyn Kaldoja, Postimees (Estonia).
Evelyn Kaldoja
Postimees
Thank you. I would like to ask the question in English. In
today's homily, you said that there are some who scream and threaten the use of weapons and the use of armies, and so on. Considering where we were, in that same square there were NATO soldiers who were sent to Estonia as security. Many have thought about the situation on the eastern borders of Europe. Are you worried about the tensions in that area and for the Catholics living on the borders of Europe?
Pope Francis
The threat of weapons. Today, world arms costs are scandalous. They tell me that with what is spent on weapons in a month, you could feed all the hungry people in the world for a year. I do not know if it's true, it's terrible. Industry, the arms trade, even the smuggling of weapons is one of the biggest sources of corruption. And before this there is the logic of defence. David was able to win the battle with a slingshot and five stones, but today there are no Davids. I believe that to defend a country, we need a reasonable and not an aggressive army of defence. Reasonable and not aggressive. Thus defence is lawful; and it is also an honour to defend one's country. The problem comes when it becomes aggressive, not reasonable, and border wars are created. We have many examples of border wars, not only in Europe - towards the East - but also on other continents: we fight for power, to colonize a country. This is, in my opinion, the answer to your question. Today, the arms industry is scandalous, in the face of a hungry world. Second: it is lawful, reasonable, to have an army to defend borders, because this is an honour; just as it is lawful to have the key to the front door. For defence purposes.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holy Father. The next question is from the German group: Stefanie Stahlhofen, from Agenzia cattolica tedesca CIC (Germania)
Stefanie Stahlhofen
Agenzia cattolica tedesca CIC
Holy Father, in the ecumenical meeting in Tallinn you said that young people, in the face of sexual scandals, do not see a clear condemnation on the part of the Catholic Church. In Germany, a new inquiry into sexual abuse and how the Church has dealt with so many cases has just come out today.
Pope Francis
I will speak about this afterwards. First, I will respond to questions about the trip. Thank you. This is the rule. But this will be the first question after the others about the trip.
Greg Burke
Let us remain focused on the trip ... Now, here comes a journalist from Radio-Televisione Lithuania.
Edvardas Spokas
Radio-Televisione Lithuania
I will speak in English. In all three countries, you said that you are in favour of openness: openness towards migrants, openness towards others. But, for example, in Lithuania there was a confrontation concerning the story of a girl who greeted you upon your arrival, in front of the plane: she did not have a very Lithuanian appearance. She was partly Italian, with slightly darker skin ... My question is: do people in the Baltic countries listen to only what they want to hear, or do they listen to what you are trying to tell them? Did they listen to your message about openness?
Pope Francis
The message about openness to migrants is far enough advanced among your people, there are no strong populist fires, no. Estonia and Latvia are also open peoples who want to integrate migrants, but not massively, because they cannot, integrate them with the prudence of the government. We talked about this with two of the three Heads of State, and they touched on the subject, not me. And in the Presidents' speeches, you will see that the words
welcome and
openness are frequent. This indicates a will for universality, to the extent that, for the sake of space, work can be done, etc; to the extent that they can be integrated - this is very important - and to the extent that it is not a threat to one's identity. These are three things that I understood about the migrations of the people. And this has touched me a lot: cautious and well thought-out openness. I do not know if you can think of anything else.
Edvardas Spokas
My question concerns how your message was received.
Pope Francis
I believe so. In this sense that I have spoken of because today, the problem of migrants all over the world - and not only external migration, but also internal migration among continents - is a serious problem, not easy to study. In every country, in every place, it has different connotations.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holy Father; we are finished with questions about the trip.
Pope Francis
Very good. I would like to tell you something about some points of the journey that I experienced with a special strength.
The fact of your history, of the history of the Baltic States: a history of invasions, of dictatorships, of crimes, of deportations ... When I visited the Museum, in Vilnius:
museum is a word that makes us think of the Louvre ... No. That museum is a prison, it is a prison to which prisoners, for political or religious reasons, were brought. And I saw cells of the size of this seat, where you could only stand up, torture cells. I have seen places of torture where, with the cold in Lithuania, they took the naked prisoners and threw water on them, and made them stay there for hours, to break their resistance. And then I entered the classroom, in the great hall of executions. The prisoners were taken there by force and killed with a blow to the back of the head; then they were taken out on a conveyor belt and loaded onto a truck that threw them into the forest. More or less, they killed forty a day. In the end, there were about fifteen thousand who were killed there. This is part of the history of Lithuania, but also of other countries. What I saw was in Lithuania. Then I went to the place of the Great Ghetto, where thousands of Jews were killed. Then, in the same afternoon, I went to the Memorial in memory of those who were condemned, murdered, tortured, deported. That day - I'm telling you the truth - I was destroyed: it made me reflect on cruelty. But I tell you that based on the information we have today, cruelty is not over. The same cruelty is found today in many places of detention, today it is found in many prisons; even the overpopulation of a prison is a system of torture, a way of life without dignity. A prison today, which does not envisage giving the inmate a prospect of hope, is already torture. Then we saw, on television, the cruelties of ISIS terrorists: that Jordanian pilot who was burned alive, those Coptic Christians slaughtered on the beach in Libya, and many others. Today cruelty is not over. It exists all over the world. And this message I would like to give to you, as journalists: this is a scandal, a serious scandal of our culture and our society.
Another thing I have seen in these three countries is the hatred of the past regime for religion, whatever it is. Hatred. I saw a Jesuit bishop, in Lithuania or Latvia, I do not remember well, he was deported to Siberia for ten years and then to another concentration camp ... Now he is old, smiling ... So many men and women, for defending their own faith, which was their identity, were tortured and deported to Siberia, and they did not return; or they were killed. The faith of these three countries is great, it is a faith that comes from martyrdom, and this is something that you have seen, talking to people, as you journalists do, to get news about the country.
Moreover, this experience of faith which is so important has produced a singular phenomenon in these countries: an ecumenical life like nowhere else, in general. There is a true ecumenism: ecumenism between Lutherans, Baptists, Anglicans and even Orthodox. In the Cathedral yesterday, at the ecumenical meeting in Latvia, in Riga, we saw it: a great thing; brothers, neighbours, together in one church ..., neighbours. Ecumenism has taken root there.
Then, there is another phenomenon in these countries that is important to study, and perhaps you can do many good things in your profession, studying this: the phenomenon of the transmission of culture, identity and faith. Usually, the transmission was done by the grandparents. Why? Because the fathers worked, fathers and mothers had to work, and they had to be absent - both in the Soviet and Nazi regime - and they were also educated in atheism. But grandparents were able to pass on faith and culture. In the time when Lithuanian language was banned in Lithuania, it was taken away from the schools, when they went to religious services - both Protestant and Catholic - they took away prayer books to see if they were in Lithuanian or in Russian or German. And many - one generation, at that time - learned their mother tongue from their grandparents: it was their grandparents who taught them to write and read their mother tongue. This makes us think, and it would be nice to see some article, some television programme on the transmission of culture, language, art, faith in moments of dictatorship and persecution. You could not think of anything else, because all the media, which at that time were few - limited to the radio - was controlled by the state. When a government becomes, when it wants to become dictatorial, the first thing it does is take over the media.
These are the things that I wanted to point out.
And now, I want to speak about today's meeting with young people. Young people are scandalized: here, I want to address the first question that was outside of the theme of travel. Young people are scandalized by the hypocrisy of great people. Wars are scandalous, incoherence is scandalous, corruption is scandalous. And in this measure of corruption comes what she pointed out, sexual abuse. It is true that there is an accusation against the Church, and we all know, we know the statistics, I will not speak here about that. But even if there had only been a single priest to abuse a child, a child, this would still be monstrous, because that man was chosen by God to bring the child to heaven. I understand that young people are scandalized by this great corruption. They know that there is scandal everywhere, but in the Church it is more scandalous, because we must take the children to God, and not destroy them. Young people try to work their way through experience. The meeting with young people today was very clear: they ask us to listen, they ask for listening. They do not want fixed formulas. They do not want directive accompaniment. And the second part of this question, which was the first one beyond the journey, was that
the Church does not do things as it should in this matter, in cleaning up this corruption. I take the Pennsylvania Report, for example, and I see that until the early 70s there were many priests who fell into this corruption. Then, more recently, the number decreased because the Church realized that she had to fight in another way. In the past, these things were covered up. They also covered cases up in homes, when an uncle was raping his granddaughter, when a father raped his children: they covered for each other, because it was a very shameful thing. It was the way of thinking of the past centuries, and of the last century. In this, there is a principle that helps me to interpret history: a historical fact must be interpreted with the hermeneutics of the era in which this fact occurred, not with today's hermeneutics. For example: indigenousness. There have been so many injustices, so many brutalities. But they cannot be interpreted with today's hermeneutics when we have another awareness. One last example: the death penalty. Even the Vatican as a state, when it was a Papal State, had the death penalty; the last person was beheaded in about 1870, a criminal, a young man. But then the moral conscience grows, the moral conscience grows. It's true that there are always loopholes, there are always hidden death sentences: you are old, you are annoyed, I do not give you medicines ... and then they say:
he's gone. It is a death sentence - a social death sentence - today. I think I have answered the question. The Church: I take the example of Pennsylvania, look at the proportions and see that when the Church became aware of this, she put it all together. And in recent times I have received many, many convictions issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and I said:
Go on, go on. Never, never have I signed a request for pardon after a sentence has been written. On this matter, there is no room to negotiate, there is no negotiation.
Greg Burke
Antonio Pelayo, from
Vida Nueva (Spain)
Antonio Pelayo
Vida Nueva
Holy Father, three days ago, an Agreement was signed between the Holy See and the government of the People's Republic of China. Can you give us some additional information about this, about its content? Because some Chinese Catholics, especially Cardinal Zen, are
accusing you of having sold the Church to the communist government in Beijing after so many years of suffering. What is your response to this accusation?
Pope Francis
This is a process that has gone on for years, a dialogue between the Vatican Commission and the Chinese Commission, to agree on the appointment of bishops. The Vatican team has worked hard. I would like to point out some of the people involved: Monsignor Celli, who patiently went, talked, came back ... years, years! Then, Monsignor Rota Graziosi, a humble 72-year-old curial official who wanted to be a priest in the parish but remained in the Curia to help with this process. And then, the Secretary of State, Cardinal Parolin, who is a very devoted man, but who has a special devotion to the details: he has studied all the documents, studied them point by point, every comma, all the accents ... And this gives me a very high level of security. And this team has gone on with these qualities. You know that when you make a peace agreement or a negotiation, both parties lose something, this is the rule. Both sides. And it goes on. This process went like this: two steps forward, one back, two forward, one back ...; then months passed without talking to each other, and then ... These are the times of God, which resemble Chinese time: the process goes slowly ... This is wisdom, the wisdom of the Chinese. The situations of the bishops who were in difficulty were studied on a case-by-case basis, and eventually the dossiers arrived on my desk and I was responsible for the signature, in the case of the bishops. As for the Agreement, the drafts passed over my desk, we talked, I gave my ideas, the others argued and then went on. I think of resistance, about the Catholics who have suffered: it is true, they will suffer. In an agreement there is suffering. But they have great faith and they write, they send messages, stating that what the Holy See says, what Peter says, is what Jesus says: that is, these people's
martyrdom of faith goes on today. They are great. And I signed the Agreement, the Plenipotentiary Letters to sign that Agreement. I am the one who bears the responsibility. The others, whom I have appointed, have worked for more than ten years. It is not an improvisation: it is a journey, a true journey.
And now, a simple anecdote and a historical fact, two things before ending. When there was that famous communiqué of a former Apostolic Nuncio, the episcopates of the world wrote to me saying that they felt close to me, that they were praying for me; even the Chinese faithful wrote, and that letter was signed by a bishop - so to speak - of the traditional Catholic Church and a bishop of the Patriotic Church: together, both of them, and the faithful of both the Churches. For me, this was a sign from God. And the second thing: we forget that in Latin America - thank God this is finished! - we forget that for 350 years, the kings of Portugal and Spain used to appoint bishops. And the Pope gave only jurisdiction. Let's not forget the case of the Austro-Hungarian Empire: Maria Teresa got tired of signing bishop appointments, and gave jurisdiction to the Vatican. And there were other times, thank God, that they are not repeated! But the current case does not concern appointments: it is a dialogue about possible candidates. The work is done in dialogue. But the appointment is from Rome; the appointment is from the Pope, this is clear. And we pray for the suffering of some who do not understand or who have many years of clandestine life behind them.
Thank you very much! They are saying that supper is ready and the flight is not so long. Thank you very much! Thank you for your work. And pray for me.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holy Father. Enjoy your supper, and rest well.
