During the flight from Philadelphia to Rome at the conclusion of the Apostolic Voyage to Cuba and the United States of America, Pope Francis met with journalists aboard the plane and held a press conference.
Father Lombardi
Holiness, welcome. Thank you for taking the time once again following a trip that has been very demanding and tiring. So, we will begin right away to ask questions. The first person who will ask is this young woman, how wrote the article in the Times about you and then prepared very well for your trip to America. Ask your question in English and Matteo will translate it into Italian, so that He will understand.
Holy Father
Good evening everyone, and thank you very much for your work; you were here and there! I was in a car, but you! ... Thank you very much.
Elizabetta Dias, Time Magazine
Thank you, Holy Father: my name is Elisabetta Dias, I am a correspondent for Time Magazine. I am curious to know: this was your fist visit to the United States. What if anything about the United States surprised you, and what was most different from your expectations?
Holy Father
Yes, this was my first visit: I have never been here before. I was surprised by the warmth, people's warmth, so friendly: something that is beautiful and also different. In Washington, there was a warm welcome but it was a bit more formal; in New York, it was a bit more exuberant; and in Philadelphia, it was very expressive. Three different expressions of the same welcome. I was very taken with people's goodness, by their welcome; and during the religious ceremonies, there was great piety, religiosity. We saw people praying, and this was very touching, and very very beautiful.
Elizabetta Dias
Did you find a challenge in the United States that you did not expect? Anything provocative?
Holy Father
No, thank God, no, no. All was well. There were no problems. No challenge, no provocation. No, no. Everyone was educated ... No one was insulting, nothing ugly. No ... But we need to continue our work with these believing people just as we have worked with them until now, accompanying people as they grow, in their beautiful experiences and in their times of difficulty; accompanying people in moments of joy and of sorrow and difficulty, when there is no work, when there are sicknesses ... The Church's challenge today is to be the same as we always have been: close to people, close to the people of the United States, with closeness. Ours is not a Church that is distant from her people, no. Close by, close. This is a challenge that the Church in the United States has understood very well! They have understood it, and they want to face it.
Father Lombardi
Now, let us hear the second question from David O'Reilly of the Philadelphia Inquirer, one of the largest newspapers in Philadelphia, where we have been visiting in these past few days.
David O'Reilly, Philadelphia Inquirer
Holy Father, Philadelphia, as you know, has had a very difficult time with sex abuse. It's still an open wound in Philadelphia. So, I know many people in Philadelphia were surprised that you offered bishops comfort and consolation and I think many in Philadelphia would ask you why did you feel the need to offer compassion to the bishops?
Holy Father
In Washington, I spoke to all the US bishops … they were all there, no? I felt the need to express compassion because something really terrible happened. And many of them suffered who did not know of this. I used words from the bible, from the Book of Revelation: You are coming from a great tribulation. What happened was a great tribulation, but also the emotional suffering. What I said today to the victims of abuse. I wouldn't say that it was an apotheosis but almost a sacrilege. We know abuses are everywhere: in families, in neighbourhoods, in schools, in gymnasiums. But when a priest abuses, it is very serious because the vocation of a priest is to make that boy, that girl grow toward the love of God, toward maturity and toward good. Instead, this is squashed and this is nearly a sacrilege and he betrays his vocation, the calling of the Lord. For this reason, the Church is strong on this and one must not cover these things up. Those who covered this up are guilty. There were even some bishops who covered this up. It is a terrible thing and the words of comfort were not to say: Don't worry; that was nothing … no, no, no … but it was so bad that I imagine that you cried hard … that was the sense of what I meant and today I spoke strongly.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much. Now, let us ask Maria Antonietta Collins and Andrés Beltramo Alvarez to come forward for the next questions.
Maria Antonietta Collins
Holy Father, you have spoken a lot about forgiveness, that God forgives us and that we often ask for forgiveness. I would like to ask you, having visited the seminary today: are there many priests who have committed sexual abuse against minors who have not asked pardon from their victims? Do you forgive them? And on the other hand, do you understand the victims and their relatives who cannot or don't want to forgive?
Holy Father
If a person has done wrong, if he is conscious of what he has done and does not say sorry, I ask God to be mindful of him. I forgive him, but he doesn't or can't receive forgiveness, he is closed off from forgiveness. If that priest is closed off from forgiveness, he won't receive it because he has locked the door from the inside. And all that remains is to pray that the Lord will open the door. To forgive, you must be willing to forgive, but not everyone can receive forgiveness, and not everyone knows how to receive it, and some are just not willing to receive it. What I'm saying is difficult. That is how you explain how there are people who at the end of their lives are hardened, badly, without receiving the tenderness of God.
Maria Antonietta Collins
If victims or relatives are unable to forgive or if they do not want to forgive, do you understand their reluctance?
Holy Father
Yes, I understand … I understand, I pray for them and I don't judge. Once, in one of those meetings, I met several people and I met a woman who told me: When my mother found out that I had been abused, she became blasphemous, she lost her faith and she died an atheist. I understand that woman. I understand her, and God who is even better than I am, understands her. I'm sure that that woman has been received by God, because what was abused, destroyed, was her own flesh, the flesh of her daughter. I understand her. I don't judge someone who can't forgive. I pray and I ask God … God is a champion at finding paths and solutions. I ask him to fix it.
Father Lombardi
Andrés Beltramo, from Notimex, perhaps you should ask your question in Italian so that you can help all of us.
Andrés Beltramo, Notimex
Father, thank you. First of all, for the moment, we have all heard you speak so much about the process toward peace in Columbia, between the FARC and the government. Now, there is an historic agreement. Do you feel as though you have played a part in the establishment of that agreement? You have said that you were thinking about going to Columbia once this agreement was reached: now there are many Columbians who are waiting for you … And another, small question: What do you think, after having experienced such an intense voyage? Are you happy with the aircraft? Thank you, Father.
Holy Father
First: when I heard the news that the agreement would be signed in March, I said to the Lord: Lord, help us to get to March, so that such a beautiful thing can come about, because little things were still missing, but the willingness was still there, on both parts. It's been done. Even in a little group, it exists, all three are in accord. We have to reach March, the definitive agreement, which is a point of international justice.. You know this. I was very happy and I felt as though I was part of it in the sense that I had always desired this, and I had spoken twice with President Santos about the problem, and the Holy See - not only I - the Holy See is so open to helping whenever possible.
The other thing: This is a little personal, but I have to be sincere. When the aircraft leaves after a visit, my mind is filled with the faces of so many people, and I have the desire to pray for them and to say to the Lord: I came to do something, to do good; I hope I haven't done something bad; if I have, please forgive me, but take care of all those people who were watching me, who thought about the things I spoke about, who heard, even those who criticized me, all of them … Does he hear this prayer, I don't know. It comes to me, but it's a bit - excuse me - a bit personal, don't write about this in the newspapers …
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much. Thomas Jansen from Cic, the German Catholic agency.
Thomas Jansen, Cic
Holy Father, I want to ask one thing about the migration crisis in Europe: many countries are building new barbed-wire fences. What do you have to say about this development?
Holy Father
You used a word: crisis. We are entering into a state of crisis after a long process. For years, this process has exploded because of wars which have forced these people to leave and to flee as wars have raged for years. Hunger: there has been hunger for years. When I think of Africa … this is a bit simplistic, but I see it as an example. When I think about Africa, the exploited continent, they went to find slaves there, then its great resources. It's the exploited continent, and now the wars, some tribal, some not, but they have economic interests behind them. I think that instead of exploiting a continent or a nation, we should make investments there instead so the people are able to work and this crisis would have been avoided. It's true, as I said in Congress, it's a refugee crisis that hasn't been seen since World War II. It's the biggest crisis.
You asked me about barriers. You know what happens to all walls. All of them: all walls fall down. Today, tomorrow or in 100 years, they will fall. It's not a solution. Walls are not a solution. At this moment, Europe is in difficulty, that's true. We have to be intelligent. We have to find solutions. We must encourage dialogue between different nations, in order to find the walls. Walls are never solutions, but bridges are, always, always. I don't know. What I think is that walls can last a short time or a long tim. The problem remains but there is more and more hatred. That's what I think.
Father Lombardi
Jean-Marie Guénois, from Figaro, part of the French group
Jean-Marie Guénois, Figaro
Holy Father, obviously, you cannot anticipate the discussions that the Synod Fathers will have, we are perfectly aware of that, but I would like to know, before the Synod, in your pastor's heart, do you really want a solution for those who are divorced and remarried? I also want to know if your Motu Proprio on the process for nullity has closed the debate, in your opinion. Finally, how would you respond to those who are afraid that with this reform, there will be a de-facto creation of a so-called Catholic divorce? Thank you.
Holy Father
Let us begin with the last part. In the reform of the procedure, the process, I have closed the door to the administrative path which was the way through which divorce could have entered. You could say that those who think this is Catholic divorce are wrong because this most recent document has closed the door to divorce by which it could have entered. It would have been easier by the administrative path. There will always be a judicial path. Continuing with the third question: the document … I don't remember the third question, but you can correct me ...
Jean-Marie Guénois
Yes, the question was on the notion of Catholic divorce and whether the Motu Proprio has closed any discussion at the Synod on this theme.
Holy Father
This was a question that was posed by the majority of the Synod Fathers at last year's Synod: streamlining the process, because there have been processes that have lasted for 10-15 years. One sentence, and another sentence; and then, there is an appeal, an appeal, and then another appeal … It never ends. The double sentence, when the first one was valid and when it wasn't appealed, was introduced by Pope Lambertini, Benedict XIV, because in Central Europe - I won't say which country - there were a few abuses, and to resolve the matter, he introduced this new procedure. But it is not something essential to the process. Processes change; jurisprudence changes for the better, it always gets better. At that time, it was something that needed to be done. Then, Pius X wanted to streamline and make some changes, but he didn't have time or the chance to do anything. The Synod Fathers asked for it: the streamlining of the process of matrimonial nullity. And I'll stop there.
This document, this Motu Proprio facilitates the processes and the timing, but it is not a divorce, because marriage is indissoluble when it is a sacrament, and this, the Church cannot change. It is doctrine, an indissoluble sacrament. The legal procedure is to prove that what seemed to be a sacrament was not in fact a sacrament: through lack of freedom, for example, or a lack of maturity or because of mental illness …There are so many possible reasons, after studying the case, an investigation to say: No, this was not a sacrament, for example, because that person wasn't free. Another example that is not so common, but in certain places in society it is common - at least in Buenos Aires it was - marriages when the woman was pregnant. You have to get married
In Buenos Aires, I counselled my priests strongly, I almost prohibited them from celebrate weddings in these conditions. We called them speedy weddings, eh? They were to cover up appearances. And the babies were born, and some worked out but there was no freedom and then things went wrong little by little they separated and said: I was forced to get married because we had to cover up this situation and this is a reason for nullity. So many of them.
Cases of nullity, you have, you can find them (the reasons) on the internet they're all there; there are many, eh? Then, the issue of the second weddings, the divorcees, who enter into a new union. You read what, you have the Instrumentum laboris. Based on what is put in discussion, it seems a bit simplistic to me to say that the Synod is the solution for these people and that they can have communion. That's not the only solution. No, what the Instrumentum laboris proposes is a lot more, and also the problem of the new unions of divorcees isn't the only problem. In the Instrumentum laboris there are many. For example, young people don’t get married. They don’t want to get married. It's a pastoral problem for the Church. Another problem: the affective maturity for a marriage. Another problem: faith. Do I believe that this is for ever? Yes, yes, yes, I believe. But do you believe it? the preparation for a wedding: I think so often that to become a priest there's a preparation for 8 years, and then, its not definite, the Church can take the clerical state away from you. But, for something lifelong, they do four courses! 4 times… Something isn't right. It’s something the Synod has to deal with: how to do preparation for marriage. It’s one of the most difficult things.
There are many problems, they're all listed in the Instrumentum laboris. But, I like that you asked the question about 'Catholic divorce.' That doesn't exist. Either it wasn't a marriage, and this is nullity - it didn't exist. And if it did, it's indissoluble. This is clear. Thank you.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much Holy Father. Now it's Terry Moran's turn, from ABC News, one of the large American networks.
Terry Moran, ABC News
Holy Father, thank you, thank you very much and thank you to the Vatican staff as well. Holy Father, you visited the Little Sisters of the Poor and we were told that you wanted to show your support for them and their case in the courts. And, Holy Father, do you also support those individuals, including government officials, who say they cannot in good conscience, their own personal conscience, abide by some laws or discharge their duties as government officials, for example in issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples. Do you support those kinds of claims of religious liberty?
Pope Francis
I can’t keep in mind all cases that can exist about conscientious objection. But, yes, I can say that conscientious objection is a right that is a part of every human right. It is a right. And if a person does not allow others to be conscientious objectors, he denies a right. Conscientious objection must enter into every juridical structure because it is a right, a human right. Otherwise we would end up in a situation where we select what is a right, saying this right has merit, this one does not. It (conscientious objection) is a human right. It always moved me when I read, and I read it many times, when I read the Chanson de Roland when the people were all in line and before them was the baptismal font and they had to choose between the baptismal font or the sword. They had to choose. They weren’t permitted conscientious objection. It is a right and if we want to make peace we have to respect all rights.
Terry Moran
Would that include government officials as well?
Pope Francis
It is a human right and if a government official is a human person, he has that right. It is a human right.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much. Now, we give the microphone to Stefano Maria Paci, from the Italian group Sky News.
Stefano Maria Paci, Sky News
Holiness, you used very strong words at the UN to denounce the world’s silence on the persecution of Christians, who are deprived of their homes, thrown out, deprived of their possessions, enslaved and brutally killed. Yesterday, President Hollande announced the beginning of a bombing campaign by France on ISIS bases in Syria. What do you think of this military action? Also, the mayor of Rome, the city of the Jubilee, declared that he came to the World Meeting of Families because you invited him. Can you tell us how it went?
Pope Francis
I will start with your second question. I did not invite Mayor Marino. Is that clear? I didn’t do it and I asked the organizers and they didn’t invite him either. He came. He professes to be a Catholic and he came spontaneously. That’s the first thing. But it is clear, heh? And now about bombardments. Truly, I heard the news the day before yesterday, and I haven’t read about it. I don’t know much about the situation. I heard that Russia took one position and it wasn’t clear yet about the United States. I truly don’t know what to say because I haven’t fully understood the situation. But, when I hear the word bombing, death, blood … I repeat what I said in Congress and at the UN, to avoid these things. But, I don’t know, I can’t judge the political situation because I don’t know enough about it.
Father Lombardi
Thank you. Now, Miriam Schmidt, from Dpa (Deutsche Presseagentur), the German news agency.
Miriam Schmidt, German DPA Agency:
Holy Father, I wanted to ask a question about the relationship of the Holy See with China and the situation in that country which is also quite difficult for the Catholic Church. What do you think about that?
Pope Francis
China is a great nation that offers the world a great culture, so many good things. I said once on the plane when were flying over China when we were coming back from Korea that I would very much like to go to China. I love the Chinese people and I hope there is a possibility of having good relations, good relations. We’re in contact, we talk, we are moving forward but for me, having a friend of a great country like China, which has so much culture and has so much opportunity to do good, would be a joy.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much ... and now, we have Sagrario Ruiz de Apodaca.
Maria Sagrarios Ruiz de Apodaca, RNE
Thank you. Good evening, Holy Father. You have visited the U.S. for the first time, you had never been there before. You spoke to Congress, you spoke to the United Nations. You drew multitudes. Do you feel more powerful? And another question, we heard you draw attention to the role of religious women, of the women in the Church in the United States. Will we one day see women priests in the Catholic church as some groups in the U.S. ask, and some other Christian churches have?
Pope Francis
He’s telling me not to answer in Spanish (referring to Fr. Federico Lombardi.) The Sisters in the United States have done marvels in the field of education, in the field of health. The people of the United States love the Sisters. I don’t know how much they love the priests, (laughs) but they love the Sisters, they love them so much. They are great, they are great, great, great women. Then, one follows her congregation, their rules, there are differences. But they are great. And for that reason I felt the obligation to say thank you for what they have done. An important person in the government of the United States told me in the last few days: The education I have, I owe above all to the Sisters. The sisters have schools in all neighborhoods, rich and poor. They work with the poor and in the hospitals. This was the first. The second? The first I remember, the second?
Maria Sagrarios Ruiz de Apodaca, RNE
If you feel powerful after having been in the United States with your schedule and having been successful?
Pope Francis
I don’t know if I had success, no. But I am afraid of myself. Why am I afraid of myself? I feel always – I don’t know – weak in the sense of not having power and also power is a fleeting thing, here today, gone tomorrow. It’s important if you can do good with power. And Jesus defined power, the true power is to serve, to do service, to do the most humble tasks, and I must still make progress on this path of service because I feel that I don’t do everything I should do. That’s the sense I have of power.
Third, on women priests, that cannot be done. Pope Saint John Paul II after long, long intense discussions, long reflection said so clearly. Not because women don’t have the capacity. Look, in the Church women are more important than men, because the church is a woman. It is la chiesa, not il chiesa. The Church is the bride of Jesus Christ. And the Madonna is more important than popes and bishops and priests. I must admit we are a bit late in an elaboration of the theology of women. We have to move ahead with that theology. Yes, that’s true.
Father Lombardi
Now, we have the last question. Here is Matilde Imberti, from Radio France. Then we will conclude.
Matilde Imberti, Radio France
Holy Father, you have become a star in the United States. Is it good for the Church if the Pope is a star?
Pope Francis
The Pope must … Do you know what title should be used to refer to the Pope? Servant of the servants of God. It’s a little different from the stars. Stars are beautiful to look at. I like to look at them in the summer when the sky is clear. But the Pope must be, must be the servant of the servants of God. Yes, in the media this is happening but there’s another truth. How many stars have we seen that go out and fall. It is a fleeting thing. On the other hand, being servant of the servants of God is something that doesn’t ever end.
Father Lombardi
Good, we've completed the list of those who were registered ... Now, thank you so very much for your availability. We have spent at least 50 minutes in conversation and it was very consistent. Congratulations to you for your endurance throughout the trip and also during this conversation with us. We continue to follow you: we are not yet finished with this trip. The trip is over but now we have the Synod, we have so many other things ... And we want to continue to follow you with much affection, esteem, appreciation, hoping to help you in your service to the servants of God.
Holy Father
Thank you for your work, for your patience, for your good intentions. Thank you. I am at your service. I am praying for you, really. Thank you for your help. Enjoy the flight!
Shortly before 10:00am, the American Airlines flight carrying Pope Francis from his historic 10 day visit to Cuba and the United States landed at Rome’s Ciampino airport.
Upon landing, the Holy Father made his customary visit to the Rome's Basilica of Saint Mary Major to give thanks to the Blessed Mother for his visit.
According to Vatican news blog, Il Sismografo, the Pope spent several minutes in prayer in front of the image of Salus Populi Romani (Protectoress of the Roman People). According to legend, the image is one of several paintings believed to have been painted by Saint Luke. This is the Pope's 25th visit to the Basilica since his election. The 78 year old Pontiff has made it a custom to visit and pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary before and after every journey.
Following his visit to the Basilica, the Pope returned to the Vatican. Pope Francis' next apostolic trip will be to Kenya, Uganda and the Central African Republic from November 25-30, 2015.
Press Conference held by His Holiness, Pope Francis
during the flight from Philadelphia to Rome
Father Lombardi
Holiness, welcome. Thank you for taking the time once again following a trip that has been very demanding and tiring. So, we will begin right away to ask questions. The first person who will ask is this young woman, how wrote the article in the Times about you and then prepared very well for your trip to America. Ask your question in English and Matteo will translate it into Italian, so that He will understand.
Holy Father
Good evening everyone, and thank you very much for your work; you were here and there! I was in a car, but you! ... Thank you very much.
Elizabetta Dias, Time Magazine
Thank you, Holy Father: my name is Elisabetta Dias, I am a correspondent for Time Magazine. I am curious to know: this was your fist visit to the United States. What if anything about the United States surprised you, and what was most different from your expectations?
Holy Father
Yes, this was my first visit: I have never been here before. I was surprised by the warmth, people's warmth, so friendly: something that is beautiful and also different. In Washington, there was a warm welcome but it was a bit more formal; in New York, it was a bit more exuberant; and in Philadelphia, it was very expressive. Three different expressions of the same welcome. I was very taken with people's goodness, by their welcome; and during the religious ceremonies, there was great piety, religiosity. We saw people praying, and this was very touching, and very very beautiful.
Elizabetta Dias
Did you find a challenge in the United States that you did not expect? Anything provocative?
Holy Father
No, thank God, no, no. All was well. There were no problems. No challenge, no provocation. No, no. Everyone was educated ... No one was insulting, nothing ugly. No ... But we need to continue our work with these believing people just as we have worked with them until now, accompanying people as they grow, in their beautiful experiences and in their times of difficulty; accompanying people in moments of joy and of sorrow and difficulty, when there is no work, when there are sicknesses ... The Church's challenge today is to be the same as we always have been: close to people, close to the people of the United States, with closeness. Ours is not a Church that is distant from her people, no. Close by, close. This is a challenge that the Church in the United States has understood very well! They have understood it, and they want to face it.
Father Lombardi
Now, let us hear the second question from David O'Reilly of the Philadelphia Inquirer, one of the largest newspapers in Philadelphia, where we have been visiting in these past few days.
David O'Reilly, Philadelphia Inquirer
Holy Father, Philadelphia, as you know, has had a very difficult time with sex abuse. It's still an open wound in Philadelphia. So, I know many people in Philadelphia were surprised that you offered bishops comfort and consolation and I think many in Philadelphia would ask you why did you feel the need to offer compassion to the bishops?
Holy Father
In Washington, I spoke to all the US bishops … they were all there, no? I felt the need to express compassion because something really terrible happened. And many of them suffered who did not know of this. I used words from the bible, from the Book of Revelation: You are coming from a great tribulation. What happened was a great tribulation, but also the emotional suffering. What I said today to the victims of abuse. I wouldn't say that it was an apotheosis but almost a sacrilege. We know abuses are everywhere: in families, in neighbourhoods, in schools, in gymnasiums. But when a priest abuses, it is very serious because the vocation of a priest is to make that boy, that girl grow toward the love of God, toward maturity and toward good. Instead, this is squashed and this is nearly a sacrilege and he betrays his vocation, the calling of the Lord. For this reason, the Church is strong on this and one must not cover these things up. Those who covered this up are guilty. There were even some bishops who covered this up. It is a terrible thing and the words of comfort were not to say: Don't worry; that was nothing … no, no, no … but it was so bad that I imagine that you cried hard … that was the sense of what I meant and today I spoke strongly.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much. Now, let us ask Maria Antonietta Collins and Andrés Beltramo Alvarez to come forward for the next questions.
Maria Antonietta Collins
Holy Father, you have spoken a lot about forgiveness, that God forgives us and that we often ask for forgiveness. I would like to ask you, having visited the seminary today: are there many priests who have committed sexual abuse against minors who have not asked pardon from their victims? Do you forgive them? And on the other hand, do you understand the victims and their relatives who cannot or don't want to forgive?
Holy Father
If a person has done wrong, if he is conscious of what he has done and does not say sorry, I ask God to be mindful of him. I forgive him, but he doesn't or can't receive forgiveness, he is closed off from forgiveness. If that priest is closed off from forgiveness, he won't receive it because he has locked the door from the inside. And all that remains is to pray that the Lord will open the door. To forgive, you must be willing to forgive, but not everyone can receive forgiveness, and not everyone knows how to receive it, and some are just not willing to receive it. What I'm saying is difficult. That is how you explain how there are people who at the end of their lives are hardened, badly, without receiving the tenderness of God.
Maria Antonietta Collins
If victims or relatives are unable to forgive or if they do not want to forgive, do you understand their reluctance?
Holy Father
Yes, I understand … I understand, I pray for them and I don't judge. Once, in one of those meetings, I met several people and I met a woman who told me: When my mother found out that I had been abused, she became blasphemous, she lost her faith and she died an atheist. I understand that woman. I understand her, and God who is even better than I am, understands her. I'm sure that that woman has been received by God, because what was abused, destroyed, was her own flesh, the flesh of her daughter. I understand her. I don't judge someone who can't forgive. I pray and I ask God … God is a champion at finding paths and solutions. I ask him to fix it.
Father Lombardi
Andrés Beltramo, from Notimex, perhaps you should ask your question in Italian so that you can help all of us.
Andrés Beltramo, Notimex
Father, thank you. First of all, for the moment, we have all heard you speak so much about the process toward peace in Columbia, between the FARC and the government. Now, there is an historic agreement. Do you feel as though you have played a part in the establishment of that agreement? You have said that you were thinking about going to Columbia once this agreement was reached: now there are many Columbians who are waiting for you … And another, small question: What do you think, after having experienced such an intense voyage? Are you happy with the aircraft? Thank you, Father.
Holy Father
First: when I heard the news that the agreement would be signed in March, I said to the Lord: Lord, help us to get to March, so that such a beautiful thing can come about, because little things were still missing, but the willingness was still there, on both parts. It's been done. Even in a little group, it exists, all three are in accord. We have to reach March, the definitive agreement, which is a point of international justice.. You know this. I was very happy and I felt as though I was part of it in the sense that I had always desired this, and I had spoken twice with President Santos about the problem, and the Holy See - not only I - the Holy See is so open to helping whenever possible.
The other thing: This is a little personal, but I have to be sincere. When the aircraft leaves after a visit, my mind is filled with the faces of so many people, and I have the desire to pray for them and to say to the Lord: I came to do something, to do good; I hope I haven't done something bad; if I have, please forgive me, but take care of all those people who were watching me, who thought about the things I spoke about, who heard, even those who criticized me, all of them … Does he hear this prayer, I don't know. It comes to me, but it's a bit - excuse me - a bit personal, don't write about this in the newspapers …
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much. Thomas Jansen from Cic, the German Catholic agency.
Thomas Jansen, Cic
Holy Father, I want to ask one thing about the migration crisis in Europe: many countries are building new barbed-wire fences. What do you have to say about this development?
Holy Father
You used a word: crisis. We are entering into a state of crisis after a long process. For years, this process has exploded because of wars which have forced these people to leave and to flee as wars have raged for years. Hunger: there has been hunger for years. When I think of Africa … this is a bit simplistic, but I see it as an example. When I think about Africa, the exploited continent, they went to find slaves there, then its great resources. It's the exploited continent, and now the wars, some tribal, some not, but they have economic interests behind them. I think that instead of exploiting a continent or a nation, we should make investments there instead so the people are able to work and this crisis would have been avoided. It's true, as I said in Congress, it's a refugee crisis that hasn't been seen since World War II. It's the biggest crisis.
You asked me about barriers. You know what happens to all walls. All of them: all walls fall down. Today, tomorrow or in 100 years, they will fall. It's not a solution. Walls are not a solution. At this moment, Europe is in difficulty, that's true. We have to be intelligent. We have to find solutions. We must encourage dialogue between different nations, in order to find the walls. Walls are never solutions, but bridges are, always, always. I don't know. What I think is that walls can last a short time or a long tim. The problem remains but there is more and more hatred. That's what I think.
Father Lombardi
Jean-Marie Guénois, from Figaro, part of the French group
Jean-Marie Guénois, Figaro
Holy Father, obviously, you cannot anticipate the discussions that the Synod Fathers will have, we are perfectly aware of that, but I would like to know, before the Synod, in your pastor's heart, do you really want a solution for those who are divorced and remarried? I also want to know if your Motu Proprio on the process for nullity has closed the debate, in your opinion. Finally, how would you respond to those who are afraid that with this reform, there will be a de-facto creation of a so-called Catholic divorce? Thank you.
Holy Father
Let us begin with the last part. In the reform of the procedure, the process, I have closed the door to the administrative path which was the way through which divorce could have entered. You could say that those who think this is Catholic divorce are wrong because this most recent document has closed the door to divorce by which it could have entered. It would have been easier by the administrative path. There will always be a judicial path. Continuing with the third question: the document … I don't remember the third question, but you can correct me ...
Jean-Marie Guénois
Yes, the question was on the notion of Catholic divorce and whether the Motu Proprio has closed any discussion at the Synod on this theme.
Holy Father
This was a question that was posed by the majority of the Synod Fathers at last year's Synod: streamlining the process, because there have been processes that have lasted for 10-15 years. One sentence, and another sentence; and then, there is an appeal, an appeal, and then another appeal … It never ends. The double sentence, when the first one was valid and when it wasn't appealed, was introduced by Pope Lambertini, Benedict XIV, because in Central Europe - I won't say which country - there were a few abuses, and to resolve the matter, he introduced this new procedure. But it is not something essential to the process. Processes change; jurisprudence changes for the better, it always gets better. At that time, it was something that needed to be done. Then, Pius X wanted to streamline and make some changes, but he didn't have time or the chance to do anything. The Synod Fathers asked for it: the streamlining of the process of matrimonial nullity. And I'll stop there.
This document, this Motu Proprio facilitates the processes and the timing, but it is not a divorce, because marriage is indissoluble when it is a sacrament, and this, the Church cannot change. It is doctrine, an indissoluble sacrament. The legal procedure is to prove that what seemed to be a sacrament was not in fact a sacrament: through lack of freedom, for example, or a lack of maturity or because of mental illness …There are so many possible reasons, after studying the case, an investigation to say: No, this was not a sacrament, for example, because that person wasn't free. Another example that is not so common, but in certain places in society it is common - at least in Buenos Aires it was - marriages when the woman was pregnant. You have to get married
In Buenos Aires, I counselled my priests strongly, I almost prohibited them from celebrate weddings in these conditions. We called them speedy weddings, eh? They were to cover up appearances. And the babies were born, and some worked out but there was no freedom and then things went wrong little by little they separated and said: I was forced to get married because we had to cover up this situation and this is a reason for nullity. So many of them.
Cases of nullity, you have, you can find them (the reasons) on the internet they're all there; there are many, eh? Then, the issue of the second weddings, the divorcees, who enter into a new union. You read what, you have the Instrumentum laboris. Based on what is put in discussion, it seems a bit simplistic to me to say that the Synod is the solution for these people and that they can have communion. That's not the only solution. No, what the Instrumentum laboris proposes is a lot more, and also the problem of the new unions of divorcees isn't the only problem. In the Instrumentum laboris there are many. For example, young people don’t get married. They don’t want to get married. It's a pastoral problem for the Church. Another problem: the affective maturity for a marriage. Another problem: faith. Do I believe that this is for ever? Yes, yes, yes, I believe. But do you believe it? the preparation for a wedding: I think so often that to become a priest there's a preparation for 8 years, and then, its not definite, the Church can take the clerical state away from you. But, for something lifelong, they do four courses! 4 times… Something isn't right. It’s something the Synod has to deal with: how to do preparation for marriage. It’s one of the most difficult things.
There are many problems, they're all listed in the Instrumentum laboris. But, I like that you asked the question about 'Catholic divorce.' That doesn't exist. Either it wasn't a marriage, and this is nullity - it didn't exist. And if it did, it's indissoluble. This is clear. Thank you.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much Holy Father. Now it's Terry Moran's turn, from ABC News, one of the large American networks.
Terry Moran, ABC News
Holy Father, thank you, thank you very much and thank you to the Vatican staff as well. Holy Father, you visited the Little Sisters of the Poor and we were told that you wanted to show your support for them and their case in the courts. And, Holy Father, do you also support those individuals, including government officials, who say they cannot in good conscience, their own personal conscience, abide by some laws or discharge their duties as government officials, for example in issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples. Do you support those kinds of claims of religious liberty?
Pope Francis
I can’t keep in mind all cases that can exist about conscientious objection. But, yes, I can say that conscientious objection is a right that is a part of every human right. It is a right. And if a person does not allow others to be conscientious objectors, he denies a right. Conscientious objection must enter into every juridical structure because it is a right, a human right. Otherwise we would end up in a situation where we select what is a right, saying this right has merit, this one does not. It (conscientious objection) is a human right. It always moved me when I read, and I read it many times, when I read the Chanson de Roland when the people were all in line and before them was the baptismal font and they had to choose between the baptismal font or the sword. They had to choose. They weren’t permitted conscientious objection. It is a right and if we want to make peace we have to respect all rights.
Terry Moran
Would that include government officials as well?
Pope Francis
It is a human right and if a government official is a human person, he has that right. It is a human right.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much. Now, we give the microphone to Stefano Maria Paci, from the Italian group Sky News.
Stefano Maria Paci, Sky News
Holiness, you used very strong words at the UN to denounce the world’s silence on the persecution of Christians, who are deprived of their homes, thrown out, deprived of their possessions, enslaved and brutally killed. Yesterday, President Hollande announced the beginning of a bombing campaign by France on ISIS bases in Syria. What do you think of this military action? Also, the mayor of Rome, the city of the Jubilee, declared that he came to the World Meeting of Families because you invited him. Can you tell us how it went?
Pope Francis
I will start with your second question. I did not invite Mayor Marino. Is that clear? I didn’t do it and I asked the organizers and they didn’t invite him either. He came. He professes to be a Catholic and he came spontaneously. That’s the first thing. But it is clear, heh? And now about bombardments. Truly, I heard the news the day before yesterday, and I haven’t read about it. I don’t know much about the situation. I heard that Russia took one position and it wasn’t clear yet about the United States. I truly don’t know what to say because I haven’t fully understood the situation. But, when I hear the word bombing, death, blood … I repeat what I said in Congress and at the UN, to avoid these things. But, I don’t know, I can’t judge the political situation because I don’t know enough about it.
Father Lombardi
Thank you. Now, Miriam Schmidt, from Dpa (Deutsche Presseagentur), the German news agency.
Miriam Schmidt, German DPA Agency:
Holy Father, I wanted to ask a question about the relationship of the Holy See with China and the situation in that country which is also quite difficult for the Catholic Church. What do you think about that?
Pope Francis
China is a great nation that offers the world a great culture, so many good things. I said once on the plane when were flying over China when we were coming back from Korea that I would very much like to go to China. I love the Chinese people and I hope there is a possibility of having good relations, good relations. We’re in contact, we talk, we are moving forward but for me, having a friend of a great country like China, which has so much culture and has so much opportunity to do good, would be a joy.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much ... and now, we have Sagrario Ruiz de Apodaca.
Maria Sagrarios Ruiz de Apodaca, RNE
Thank you. Good evening, Holy Father. You have visited the U.S. for the first time, you had never been there before. You spoke to Congress, you spoke to the United Nations. You drew multitudes. Do you feel more powerful? And another question, we heard you draw attention to the role of religious women, of the women in the Church in the United States. Will we one day see women priests in the Catholic church as some groups in the U.S. ask, and some other Christian churches have?
Pope Francis
He’s telling me not to answer in Spanish (referring to Fr. Federico Lombardi.) The Sisters in the United States have done marvels in the field of education, in the field of health. The people of the United States love the Sisters. I don’t know how much they love the priests, (laughs) but they love the Sisters, they love them so much. They are great, they are great, great, great women. Then, one follows her congregation, their rules, there are differences. But they are great. And for that reason I felt the obligation to say thank you for what they have done. An important person in the government of the United States told me in the last few days: The education I have, I owe above all to the Sisters. The sisters have schools in all neighborhoods, rich and poor. They work with the poor and in the hospitals. This was the first. The second? The first I remember, the second?
Maria Sagrarios Ruiz de Apodaca, RNE
If you feel powerful after having been in the United States with your schedule and having been successful?
Pope Francis
I don’t know if I had success, no. But I am afraid of myself. Why am I afraid of myself? I feel always – I don’t know – weak in the sense of not having power and also power is a fleeting thing, here today, gone tomorrow. It’s important if you can do good with power. And Jesus defined power, the true power is to serve, to do service, to do the most humble tasks, and I must still make progress on this path of service because I feel that I don’t do everything I should do. That’s the sense I have of power.
Third, on women priests, that cannot be done. Pope Saint John Paul II after long, long intense discussions, long reflection said so clearly. Not because women don’t have the capacity. Look, in the Church women are more important than men, because the church is a woman. It is la chiesa, not il chiesa. The Church is the bride of Jesus Christ. And the Madonna is more important than popes and bishops and priests. I must admit we are a bit late in an elaboration of the theology of women. We have to move ahead with that theology. Yes, that’s true.
Father Lombardi
Now, we have the last question. Here is Matilde Imberti, from Radio France. Then we will conclude.
Matilde Imberti, Radio France
Holy Father, you have become a star in the United States. Is it good for the Church if the Pope is a star?
Pope Francis
The Pope must … Do you know what title should be used to refer to the Pope? Servant of the servants of God. It’s a little different from the stars. Stars are beautiful to look at. I like to look at them in the summer when the sky is clear. But the Pope must be, must be the servant of the servants of God. Yes, in the media this is happening but there’s another truth. How many stars have we seen that go out and fall. It is a fleeting thing. On the other hand, being servant of the servants of God is something that doesn’t ever end.
Father Lombardi
Good, we've completed the list of those who were registered ... Now, thank you so very much for your availability. We have spent at least 50 minutes in conversation and it was very consistent. Congratulations to you for your endurance throughout the trip and also during this conversation with us. We continue to follow you: we are not yet finished with this trip. The trip is over but now we have the Synod, we have so many other things ... And we want to continue to follow you with much affection, esteem, appreciation, hoping to help you in your service to the servants of God.
Holy Father
Thank you for your work, for your patience, for your good intentions. Thank you. I am at your service. I am praying for you, really. Thank you for your help. Enjoy the flight!
Shortly before 10:00am, the American Airlines flight carrying Pope Francis from his historic 10 day visit to Cuba and the United States landed at Rome’s Ciampino airport.
Upon landing, the Holy Father made his customary visit to the Rome's Basilica of Saint Mary Major to give thanks to the Blessed Mother for his visit.
According to Vatican news blog, Il Sismografo, the Pope spent several minutes in prayer in front of the image of Salus Populi Romani (Protectoress of the Roman People). According to legend, the image is one of several paintings believed to have been painted by Saint Luke. This is the Pope's 25th visit to the Basilica since his election. The 78 year old Pontiff has made it a custom to visit and pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary before and after every journey.
Following his visit to the Basilica, the Pope returned to the Vatican. Pope Francis' next apostolic trip will be to Kenya, Uganda and the Central African Republic from November 25-30, 2015.
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