On Saturday evening, during the flight from Fatima to Rome at the completion of the Pilgrimage to the Shrine of Our Lady of Fátima, on the occasion of the Centenary of the Apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Cova da Iria, the Holy Father, Pope Francis met with journalists on board the flight and held a press conference.
Greg Burke
Director of the Holy See Press Centre
Thank you, Holiness. These were 24 very intense hours. Twenty-four hours dedicated to Our Lady. The Portuguese felt very touched when you said: We have a Mother. You feel this reality in a very special way. One hundred years ago, Our Lady did not appear to three important journalists, she appeared to three shepherds. We have seen how they, with their simplicity and holiness, were able to spread this message across the globe. Journalists too help to spread this message, as you can see by the number of countries represented here: many people are curious about this trip. Would you like to say something first ...?
Pope Francis
First of all, good evening. Thank you. And I want to respond to as many questions as possible, so that we can do things quickly. I don't like to be in the middle of something when they come to tell me that it's time for a snack ...; but let's try to do both things together. Thank you.
Greg Burke
Good. Let us begin with the Portuguese group, with Fátima Campos Ferreira from Radio-Televisione portoghese RTP.
Fátima Campos Ferreira
RTP
I do not know what it's like to sit in front of the Holy Father. Good, first of all, thank you very much for this trip. Holy Father, you came to Fátima as a pilgrim in order to canonize Francisco and Jacinta in the year when we celebrate one hundred years after the apparitions. From this historical point, what is next for the Church and for the entire world? Now, Fátima will always hold a message of peace and at the Vatican, the Holy Father will receive the North-American President Donald Trump in the coming days - on May 24. What can the world expect to result from this meeting, and what does the Holy Father hope for from this encounter? Thank you very much.
Pope Francis
It is certain that Fátima holds a message of peace. This message was shared with humanity by three great communicators who were less than 13 years old. What is interesting? That I came as a pilgrim, yes. That the canonization was something that wasn't planned at first because the process of examination of the miracle was in progress, but suddenly things were positive and were accelerated ... in this way, things came together. For me, it was a very great pleasure. What can we hope for the world? Peace. And what will I speak about from now on with anyone else? Peace.
Fátima Ferreira
And what's left now of this historical moment for the Church and for the world?
Pope Francis
A message of peace. And I would like to say something that is dear to my heart. Before boarding the flight, I received scientists from various religious backgrounds who were studying at the Vatican Observatory in Castel Gandolfo. There were also some agnostics and atheists. One of the atheists said: I am an atheist; he did not tell me his ethnicity, nor did he tell me where he was from. He spoke in English, so I did not know, and I did not ask. He said: Can I ask you a favour: tell Christians to love Muslims more. This is a message of peace.
Fátima Ferreira
Is this what you will say to Mister Trump?
Pope Francis
(smile)
Greg Burke
And now, Aura Miguel, Radio Renascença.
Aura Miguel
Radio Renascença
Should I ask the question in Portuguese, or in Italian?
Pope Francis
Italian is better.
Aura Miguel
So, Holiness, in Fátima, you presented yourself as the Bishop dressed in white. Up until now, this expression applied mostly to the vision of the third part of the secret, to John Paul II and the martyrs of the twentieth century. What is the meaning now of your identification with this expression?
Pope Francis
Yes, in prayer. I did not do this, the people at the Shrine did. But I too asked the question, why did they say this? There is a correlation, based on white: the Bishop dressed in white, the Madonna dressed in white, the white garment of children's innocence after baptism ... There is a correlation, in that prayer, on the colour white. I believe - because I did not do it - I believe that literally, they tried to express the desire for innocence and for peace with the colour white: innocence, not harming others, not going to war ...
Aura Miguel
Is there a revision to the interpretation of the message?
Pope Francis
No. That vision ... I believe that it was Cardinal Ratzinger, who at the time was the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who explained everything clearly. Thank you.
Greg Burke
The next question is from Claudio Lavagna from NBC, here to the right.
Claudio Lavagna
NBC
Holy Father, greetings. Yesterday, you asked the faithful to knock down all the walls. Yet, on May 24, you will meet a Head of State who is threatening to build walls: this is a bit contrary to your words, but he also - seems - to have opinions and to make decisions different from yours on other points, for example concerning the necessity to do something about global warming or the welcoming of migrants. So, on the vigil of this meeting, what opinion do you have about the politics that Mister Trump has adopted so far in this regard, and what do you expect of the meeting you will have with a Head of State that seems to think and act in ways contrary to you?
Pope Francis
The first question is - I can answer both of them - I never make a judgement about a person without having spoken to him or her. I believe that I should not make such a judgement. As we speak together, we will see how things go: I will tell him what I think, he will tell me what he thinks. But I never, never want to make a judgement without listening to the person. And the second thing is what I think ...
Claudio Lavagna
... what you think especially about his stances like the welcoming of migrants ...
Pope Francis
But you know the answer to this very well!
Claudio Lavagna
But the second is: what do you expect from your meeting with a Head of State who thinks differently from you.
Pope Francis
There are always doors that have not been closed. You have to look for the doors that are at least a little bit open, in order to enter there and speak about things that are shared in common and then move on from there. One step at a time. Peace is an art: one we create every day, like friendships between people, mutual knowledge, esteem is an art: we create it every day. Respect for the other person, saying what we think, but with respect, walking together ... Some people may think of it in this way: to say something, be very sincere in what everyone thinks.
Claudio Lavagna
Do you hope to soften his decisions afterward ...
Pope Francis
This is a political calculation that I will not make. Even on the level of religion, I am not a proselytizer. Thank you.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holiness. Now Elisabetta Piqué is coming.
Elisabetta Piqué
La Nación
Thank you, first of all, for this brief and very intense trip. We want to ask you: today is the centenary of the apparitions of the Virgin of Fatima, but it is also the anniversary of an important moment in your life, which took place 25 years ago, when the Calabrese Nuncio told you that you would be made the Auxiliary Bishop of Buenos Aires: a moment that marked the end of your exile in Cordoba and a great change in your life. My question is: have you ever associated this moment that changed your life with the Virgin of Fatima? And during these days while you were praying before her statue, did you think about that moment? What can you tell us? Thank you.
Pope Francis
Women know everything! (smile) I did not think about that coincidence; only yesterday, while I was praying before the Madonna, I remembered that it was May 13 when I received the telephone call from the Nuncio, 25 years ago. Yes. I don't know ... I said: Hey! ... And I spoke with Our Lady a little bit about that, I asked for her forgiveness for all my mistakes, and for a bit of bad taste in choosing some people ... (laugh). But only yesterday did I realize it.
Greg Burke
Nicholas Senèze, from La Croix
Nicholas Senèze
La Croix
Thank you, Holy Father. Let us return to Fatima for which the Fraternity of Saint Pius X has a great devotion. There is much talk about an agreement that would give the Fraternity official status within the Church. Some have even imagined that such an announcement might have been made today. Do you, Holy Father, think that this agreement might be possible in the near future? And what are the remaining obstacles? And what do you think is at the heart of this reconciliation? Will it be the triumphal return of the faithful to what it means to be truly Catholic, or something else?
Pope Francis
I would do away with all forms of triumphalism, no? A few days ago, the fourth day of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, their session - they call it the fourth day because it took place on a Wednesday - studied a document, and I have not yet received the document, the study that has been conducted. This is the first thing. Second: current relations with the fraternity. Last year I granted a licence for every one of them to hear confessions, and also a juridical form for matrimony. But first, also, the problems, the cases that we have - for example - that need to be resolved by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the same Congregation that has supported them. For example, abuses: cases of abuse, they bring them to us; including the Apostolic Penitentiary; and for the reduction to the lay state of a priest that is brought to us ... There are fraternal relations. With Monsignor Fellay, I have a good relationship, I have spoken with him several times ... I don't like to hurry things. Walk, walk, walk, and eventually we will see. To me this is not a problem of winners or losers, no. It is a problem of brothers who should walk together, seeking the way to take steps together.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holiness. Now, Tassilo Forchheimer from ARD
Tassilo Forchheimer
ARD
Holy Father, on the occasion of the anniversary of the Reform, can evangelical Christians and Catholics embark on another journey together? Will there be a possibility for participation at the same Eucharistic Table? A few months ago, Cardinal Kasper said that it would be possible for us to take a step forward during this year ...
Holy Father
Some great steps have been taken! We can consider the Declaration on justification: from that moment on, efforts have been continual. The trip to Sweden was very significant because it was the beginning (of the celebrations), and also a commemoration with Sweden. In that place too, there were some significant steps taken in the ecumenical journey: it is important that we should continue to journey in prayer, with martyrdom and with works of charity, with works of mercy. Also, in that place, Lutheran Caritas and Catholic Caritas have reached an agreement to work together: this is a major step! But we are always looking forward to the next steps. You know that our God is a God of surprises. We should never give up, we must always continue moving forward. Praying together, witnessing together, doing works of mercy together: this is the work of proclaiming the charity of Jesus Christ, proclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, the only Saviour, and that grace comes from him alone ... In this journey, theologians continue their studies, but the journey must continue. With hearts that are open to surprises ...
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holiness. Now, here is Mimmo Muolo from Avvenire
Mimmo Muolo
Avvenire
Good evening, Holiness. I have a question on behalf of the Italian group. Yesterday and today in Fatima, we saw a great testimony to popular faith, together with you; similar for example to what we might say about other Marian shrines like the one at Medjugorje. What do you think about these apparitions - there were apparitions - and about the religious fervour that has been aroused, given that you have decided to appoint a Bishop delegate for pastoral aspects? And if you would permit me a second question, which I know is dear to your heart, other than to us Italians: I wish to know, NGOs have been accused of collusion with persons who are being trafficked. What do you think about that. Thank you.
Pope Francis
Let us begin with the second question. I read in the morning papers that there was this problem, but I still don't know the details. For this reason, I cannot give an opinion. I know that there is a problem and that investigations are ongoing. I hope that they may continue and that the truth will come out. The first question? Medjugorje. All apparitions or supposed apparitions belong to the private sphere, they are not part of the public ordinary Magisterium of the Church. Medjugorje: a commission was being chaired by Cardinal Ruini. Benedict XVI created it. At the end of 2013 or at the beginning of 2014, I received the results from Cardinal Ruini. A commission of good theologians, Cardinals. Good, good, good. The Ruini report is very, very good. Then there were some doubts expressed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Congregation decided to send to every member of the congress, that fourth day, all the documentation, even things that appeared to be against the Ruini report. I received the report: I remember that it was Saturday night, late at night. It didn't seem right to me: it was like an auction - pardon the word - the Ruini report, which was very well done. And Sunday morning, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith received a letter from me, in which I asked him to say that instead of sending it in the fourth person, I would send my opinions personally. These opinions were studied, and all of them point to the density of the Ruini report. Yes, first of all we need to distinguish three things. Concerning the first apparitions, when the seers were children, the report says that more or less, that there was a need for further investigation. Concerning the current apparitions, the report has its doubts. I am personally more doubtful: I prefer Our Lady, a mother, our mother, and not Our Lady, the office manager in charge of communications who sends messages every day ... that is not the mother of Jesus. And these present apparitions do not hold much value. This is my personal opinion. Who could imagine Our Lady saying: Come tomorrow at this time and I will give a message to the visionaries; no. (The Ruini report) distinguishes between the two apparitions. And the third, which is the true heart of the Ruini report: the spiritual facts, the pastoral facts, people who go there and are converted, people who encounter God, who change their lives ... There is no magic wand, and we cannot ignore the spiritual-pastoral facts. Now, we must look at these things with all the facts, with the responses that theologians have sent. This Bishop has been appointed - he is good, he is good because he has experience - to see the development of the pastoral facts. And when it's all finished, we will say a few words.
Mimmo Muolo
Holiness, thank you also for the blessing which you sent to my fellow countrymen: we have heard from them and they are very happy.
Pope Francis
Thank you.
Greg Burke
Holiness, now if I may be the bad boy, we have made the tour of all the linguistic groups, there are six ...
Pope Francis
Ah, we still have some time ...
Greg Burke:
There is time for another question ...
Pope Francis
One or two ...
Greg Burke
Joshua McElwee, from National Catholic Reporter
Joshua McElwee
National Catholic Reporter
Thank you, Holy Father. My question: the final member of the Commission for the protection of minors, who was abused by a priest, resigned in March. Ms. Marie Collins said that she had to resign because the officials in the Vatican were not enacting the advice provided by the Commission which you, Holy Father, have approved. I have two questions. Who is responsible? And what have you done, Holy Father, to ensure that the priests and bishops in the Vatican enact your recommendations, suggested by this Commission?
Pope Francis
True. Marie Collins explained things to me very clearly. I spoke with her: she is a good woman. She continues to work in the field of formation with priests on this issue. She is a good woman, who wants to work. She made this accusation, and se was right to do it. Why? Because there are many cases that have been delayed, because they are backlogged ... Then, at this time, legislation had to be created: what should diocesan bishops do? In almost all dioceses now, there is a protocol to be followed in these cases: great progress has been made. In this way, the dossiers will be well attended to. This is one step. Another step: there are few people, we need more people who are capable of this, and the Secretariat of State is looking for them, even Cardinal Müller, needs new people. The other day, two or three new people arrived. We changed the director of the disciplinary office, the person was good, was very good, but a bit tired: that person returned home to do the same work with his bishops. And the new one - who is from Ireland, Monsignor Kennedy - is a very good person, very efficient, fast, and this helps a lot. And there is something else. Sometimes, the bishops send; if the Process is going well, their requests will suddenly pass to the fourth step, and the fourth step will study and decide. If the Process is not going well, it has to turn around and needs to be redone. This is why we think in continental terms, or two persons per continent: for example, in Latin America, one in Columbia and the other in Brazil ... It would be like a pre-tribunal or a continental tribunal. But this is all in the planning stages. And then, the next step: we will study the fourth step and will remove the clerical state from priests, who return to their dioceses and make recourse. First, the recourse will study the same fourth step who provided the sentence, but this would be unjust. I created another tribunal and I placed at its head an indisputable person: the Archbishop of Malta, His Excellency, Charles Jude Scicluna, who is one of the strongest voices against abuses. And in this second tribunal - because we have to be fair - the one who makes recourse has the right to have a defender. If the first sentence is approved, the case is closed. All that remains (is the need to write) a letter, asking the Pope to grant the grace. I have never signed a grace. This is the way things will be, they are moving forward. Marie Collins was right on that point; but we, were still on the street. There are two thousand cases to attend to! Thank you.
Greg Burke
Holiness, so now we must go ...
Pope Francis
Who was the other person, who was waiting?
Greg Burke
A Portuguese ...
Pope Francis
Ah, poor girl ...
Greg Burke
Ok ...
Joana Haderer
Agencia portoghese Lusa
Thank you, Holy Father. I want to speak in Spanish because it is easier for me. I want to ask a question about the case of Portugal, but I believe that it applies to many of our western cultures. In Portugal, almost all the Portuguese identify themselves as Catholic, almost all of them, almost 90%; but the way society is organized, the decisions that are made ... many times they are contrary to the direction of the Church. I am referring to marriage and homosexuals, the decriminalization of abortion. Now we are also going to begin discussing euthanasia. How do you see these things?
Pope Francis
I believe that this is a political problem. And also Catholic conscience is not a conscience that sometimes totally belongs to the Church, and also, behind all this, there is no nuanced catechesis, a human catechesis ... That is to say, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is an example of something that is both serious and nuanced. I think that it is the fault of formation and culture. It is curious: in some other regions - I think in Italy, some parts of Latin America - that ... People are very Catholic, but they are anti-clerical ... mangiapreti (anti-priests) who (laugh). This is a phenomenon that arrises, and ...
Joana Haderer
And it is concerning to you?
Pope Francis
Clearly it is a preoccupation. This is the reason why I say to priests - they will have read about it - Run away from clericalism. Because clericalism drives people away. Run away from clericalism, and I add: it is a plague in the Church. But this is also the work of catechesis, awareness, dialogue, including human values. Thank you. I am grateful for your work and for the acuteness of your questions. Thank you.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holy Father.
Pope Francis
And pray for me, don't forget.
Transcript of the Press Conference
granted by His Holiness, Pope Francis
en route from Portugal to Rome
Greg Burke
Director of the Holy See Press Centre
Thank you, Holiness. These were 24 very intense hours. Twenty-four hours dedicated to Our Lady. The Portuguese felt very touched when you said: We have a Mother. You feel this reality in a very special way. One hundred years ago, Our Lady did not appear to three important journalists, she appeared to three shepherds. We have seen how they, with their simplicity and holiness, were able to spread this message across the globe. Journalists too help to spread this message, as you can see by the number of countries represented here: many people are curious about this trip. Would you like to say something first ...?
Pope Francis
First of all, good evening. Thank you. And I want to respond to as many questions as possible, so that we can do things quickly. I don't like to be in the middle of something when they come to tell me that it's time for a snack ...; but let's try to do both things together. Thank you.
Greg Burke
Good. Let us begin with the Portuguese group, with Fátima Campos Ferreira from Radio-Televisione portoghese RTP.
Fátima Campos Ferreira
RTP
I do not know what it's like to sit in front of the Holy Father. Good, first of all, thank you very much for this trip. Holy Father, you came to Fátima as a pilgrim in order to canonize Francisco and Jacinta in the year when we celebrate one hundred years after the apparitions. From this historical point, what is next for the Church and for the entire world? Now, Fátima will always hold a message of peace and at the Vatican, the Holy Father will receive the North-American President Donald Trump in the coming days - on May 24. What can the world expect to result from this meeting, and what does the Holy Father hope for from this encounter? Thank you very much.
Pope Francis
It is certain that Fátima holds a message of peace. This message was shared with humanity by three great communicators who were less than 13 years old. What is interesting? That I came as a pilgrim, yes. That the canonization was something that wasn't planned at first because the process of examination of the miracle was in progress, but suddenly things were positive and were accelerated ... in this way, things came together. For me, it was a very great pleasure. What can we hope for the world? Peace. And what will I speak about from now on with anyone else? Peace.
Fátima Ferreira
And what's left now of this historical moment for the Church and for the world?
Pope Francis
A message of peace. And I would like to say something that is dear to my heart. Before boarding the flight, I received scientists from various religious backgrounds who were studying at the Vatican Observatory in Castel Gandolfo. There were also some agnostics and atheists. One of the atheists said: I am an atheist; he did not tell me his ethnicity, nor did he tell me where he was from. He spoke in English, so I did not know, and I did not ask. He said: Can I ask you a favour: tell Christians to love Muslims more. This is a message of peace.
Fátima Ferreira
Is this what you will say to Mister Trump?
Pope Francis
(smile)
Greg Burke
And now, Aura Miguel, Radio Renascença.
Aura Miguel
Radio Renascença
Should I ask the question in Portuguese, or in Italian?
Pope Francis
Italian is better.
Aura Miguel
So, Holiness, in Fátima, you presented yourself as the Bishop dressed in white. Up until now, this expression applied mostly to the vision of the third part of the secret, to John Paul II and the martyrs of the twentieth century. What is the meaning now of your identification with this expression?
Pope Francis
Yes, in prayer. I did not do this, the people at the Shrine did. But I too asked the question, why did they say this? There is a correlation, based on white: the Bishop dressed in white, the Madonna dressed in white, the white garment of children's innocence after baptism ... There is a correlation, in that prayer, on the colour white. I believe - because I did not do it - I believe that literally, they tried to express the desire for innocence and for peace with the colour white: innocence, not harming others, not going to war ...
Aura Miguel
Is there a revision to the interpretation of the message?
Pope Francis
No. That vision ... I believe that it was Cardinal Ratzinger, who at the time was the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who explained everything clearly. Thank you.
Greg Burke
The next question is from Claudio Lavagna from NBC, here to the right.
Claudio Lavagna
NBC
Holy Father, greetings. Yesterday, you asked the faithful to knock down all the walls. Yet, on May 24, you will meet a Head of State who is threatening to build walls: this is a bit contrary to your words, but he also - seems - to have opinions and to make decisions different from yours on other points, for example concerning the necessity to do something about global warming or the welcoming of migrants. So, on the vigil of this meeting, what opinion do you have about the politics that Mister Trump has adopted so far in this regard, and what do you expect of the meeting you will have with a Head of State that seems to think and act in ways contrary to you?
Pope Francis
The first question is - I can answer both of them - I never make a judgement about a person without having spoken to him or her. I believe that I should not make such a judgement. As we speak together, we will see how things go: I will tell him what I think, he will tell me what he thinks. But I never, never want to make a judgement without listening to the person. And the second thing is what I think ...
Claudio Lavagna
... what you think especially about his stances like the welcoming of migrants ...
Pope Francis
But you know the answer to this very well!
Claudio Lavagna
But the second is: what do you expect from your meeting with a Head of State who thinks differently from you.
Pope Francis
There are always doors that have not been closed. You have to look for the doors that are at least a little bit open, in order to enter there and speak about things that are shared in common and then move on from there. One step at a time. Peace is an art: one we create every day, like friendships between people, mutual knowledge, esteem is an art: we create it every day. Respect for the other person, saying what we think, but with respect, walking together ... Some people may think of it in this way: to say something, be very sincere in what everyone thinks.
Claudio Lavagna
Do you hope to soften his decisions afterward ...
Pope Francis
This is a political calculation that I will not make. Even on the level of religion, I am not a proselytizer. Thank you.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holiness. Now Elisabetta Piqué is coming.
Elisabetta Piqué
La Nación
Thank you, first of all, for this brief and very intense trip. We want to ask you: today is the centenary of the apparitions of the Virgin of Fatima, but it is also the anniversary of an important moment in your life, which took place 25 years ago, when the Calabrese Nuncio told you that you would be made the Auxiliary Bishop of Buenos Aires: a moment that marked the end of your exile in Cordoba and a great change in your life. My question is: have you ever associated this moment that changed your life with the Virgin of Fatima? And during these days while you were praying before her statue, did you think about that moment? What can you tell us? Thank you.
Pope Francis
Women know everything! (smile) I did not think about that coincidence; only yesterday, while I was praying before the Madonna, I remembered that it was May 13 when I received the telephone call from the Nuncio, 25 years ago. Yes. I don't know ... I said: Hey! ... And I spoke with Our Lady a little bit about that, I asked for her forgiveness for all my mistakes, and for a bit of bad taste in choosing some people ... (laugh). But only yesterday did I realize it.
Greg Burke
Nicholas Senèze, from La Croix
Nicholas Senèze
La Croix
Thank you, Holy Father. Let us return to Fatima for which the Fraternity of Saint Pius X has a great devotion. There is much talk about an agreement that would give the Fraternity official status within the Church. Some have even imagined that such an announcement might have been made today. Do you, Holy Father, think that this agreement might be possible in the near future? And what are the remaining obstacles? And what do you think is at the heart of this reconciliation? Will it be the triumphal return of the faithful to what it means to be truly Catholic, or something else?
Pope Francis
I would do away with all forms of triumphalism, no? A few days ago, the fourth day of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, their session - they call it the fourth day because it took place on a Wednesday - studied a document, and I have not yet received the document, the study that has been conducted. This is the first thing. Second: current relations with the fraternity. Last year I granted a licence for every one of them to hear confessions, and also a juridical form for matrimony. But first, also, the problems, the cases that we have - for example - that need to be resolved by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the same Congregation that has supported them. For example, abuses: cases of abuse, they bring them to us; including the Apostolic Penitentiary; and for the reduction to the lay state of a priest that is brought to us ... There are fraternal relations. With Monsignor Fellay, I have a good relationship, I have spoken with him several times ... I don't like to hurry things. Walk, walk, walk, and eventually we will see. To me this is not a problem of winners or losers, no. It is a problem of brothers who should walk together, seeking the way to take steps together.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holiness. Now, Tassilo Forchheimer from ARD
Tassilo Forchheimer
ARD
Holy Father, on the occasion of the anniversary of the Reform, can evangelical Christians and Catholics embark on another journey together? Will there be a possibility for participation at the same Eucharistic Table? A few months ago, Cardinal Kasper said that it would be possible for us to take a step forward during this year ...
Holy Father
Some great steps have been taken! We can consider the Declaration on justification: from that moment on, efforts have been continual. The trip to Sweden was very significant because it was the beginning (of the celebrations), and also a commemoration with Sweden. In that place too, there were some significant steps taken in the ecumenical journey: it is important that we should continue to journey in prayer, with martyrdom and with works of charity, with works of mercy. Also, in that place, Lutheran Caritas and Catholic Caritas have reached an agreement to work together: this is a major step! But we are always looking forward to the next steps. You know that our God is a God of surprises. We should never give up, we must always continue moving forward. Praying together, witnessing together, doing works of mercy together: this is the work of proclaiming the charity of Jesus Christ, proclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, the only Saviour, and that grace comes from him alone ... In this journey, theologians continue their studies, but the journey must continue. With hearts that are open to surprises ...
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holiness. Now, here is Mimmo Muolo from Avvenire
Mimmo Muolo
Avvenire
Good evening, Holiness. I have a question on behalf of the Italian group. Yesterday and today in Fatima, we saw a great testimony to popular faith, together with you; similar for example to what we might say about other Marian shrines like the one at Medjugorje. What do you think about these apparitions - there were apparitions - and about the religious fervour that has been aroused, given that you have decided to appoint a Bishop delegate for pastoral aspects? And if you would permit me a second question, which I know is dear to your heart, other than to us Italians: I wish to know, NGOs have been accused of collusion with persons who are being trafficked. What do you think about that. Thank you.
Pope Francis
Let us begin with the second question. I read in the morning papers that there was this problem, but I still don't know the details. For this reason, I cannot give an opinion. I know that there is a problem and that investigations are ongoing. I hope that they may continue and that the truth will come out. The first question? Medjugorje. All apparitions or supposed apparitions belong to the private sphere, they are not part of the public ordinary Magisterium of the Church. Medjugorje: a commission was being chaired by Cardinal Ruini. Benedict XVI created it. At the end of 2013 or at the beginning of 2014, I received the results from Cardinal Ruini. A commission of good theologians, Cardinals. Good, good, good. The Ruini report is very, very good. Then there were some doubts expressed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Congregation decided to send to every member of the congress, that fourth day, all the documentation, even things that appeared to be against the Ruini report. I received the report: I remember that it was Saturday night, late at night. It didn't seem right to me: it was like an auction - pardon the word - the Ruini report, which was very well done. And Sunday morning, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith received a letter from me, in which I asked him to say that instead of sending it in the fourth person, I would send my opinions personally. These opinions were studied, and all of them point to the density of the Ruini report. Yes, first of all we need to distinguish three things. Concerning the first apparitions, when the seers were children, the report says that more or less, that there was a need for further investigation. Concerning the current apparitions, the report has its doubts. I am personally more doubtful: I prefer Our Lady, a mother, our mother, and not Our Lady, the office manager in charge of communications who sends messages every day ... that is not the mother of Jesus. And these present apparitions do not hold much value. This is my personal opinion. Who could imagine Our Lady saying: Come tomorrow at this time and I will give a message to the visionaries; no. (The Ruini report) distinguishes between the two apparitions. And the third, which is the true heart of the Ruini report: the spiritual facts, the pastoral facts, people who go there and are converted, people who encounter God, who change their lives ... There is no magic wand, and we cannot ignore the spiritual-pastoral facts. Now, we must look at these things with all the facts, with the responses that theologians have sent. This Bishop has been appointed - he is good, he is good because he has experience - to see the development of the pastoral facts. And when it's all finished, we will say a few words.
Mimmo Muolo
Holiness, thank you also for the blessing which you sent to my fellow countrymen: we have heard from them and they are very happy.
Pope Francis
Thank you.
Greg Burke
Holiness, now if I may be the bad boy, we have made the tour of all the linguistic groups, there are six ...
Pope Francis
Ah, we still have some time ...
Greg Burke:
There is time for another question ...
Pope Francis
One or two ...
Greg Burke
Joshua McElwee, from National Catholic Reporter
Joshua McElwee
National Catholic Reporter
Thank you, Holy Father. My question: the final member of the Commission for the protection of minors, who was abused by a priest, resigned in March. Ms. Marie Collins said that she had to resign because the officials in the Vatican were not enacting the advice provided by the Commission which you, Holy Father, have approved. I have two questions. Who is responsible? And what have you done, Holy Father, to ensure that the priests and bishops in the Vatican enact your recommendations, suggested by this Commission?
Pope Francis
True. Marie Collins explained things to me very clearly. I spoke with her: she is a good woman. She continues to work in the field of formation with priests on this issue. She is a good woman, who wants to work. She made this accusation, and se was right to do it. Why? Because there are many cases that have been delayed, because they are backlogged ... Then, at this time, legislation had to be created: what should diocesan bishops do? In almost all dioceses now, there is a protocol to be followed in these cases: great progress has been made. In this way, the dossiers will be well attended to. This is one step. Another step: there are few people, we need more people who are capable of this, and the Secretariat of State is looking for them, even Cardinal Müller, needs new people. The other day, two or three new people arrived. We changed the director of the disciplinary office, the person was good, was very good, but a bit tired: that person returned home to do the same work with his bishops. And the new one - who is from Ireland, Monsignor Kennedy - is a very good person, very efficient, fast, and this helps a lot. And there is something else. Sometimes, the bishops send; if the Process is going well, their requests will suddenly pass to the fourth step, and the fourth step will study and decide. If the Process is not going well, it has to turn around and needs to be redone. This is why we think in continental terms, or two persons per continent: for example, in Latin America, one in Columbia and the other in Brazil ... It would be like a pre-tribunal or a continental tribunal. But this is all in the planning stages. And then, the next step: we will study the fourth step and will remove the clerical state from priests, who return to their dioceses and make recourse. First, the recourse will study the same fourth step who provided the sentence, but this would be unjust. I created another tribunal and I placed at its head an indisputable person: the Archbishop of Malta, His Excellency, Charles Jude Scicluna, who is one of the strongest voices against abuses. And in this second tribunal - because we have to be fair - the one who makes recourse has the right to have a defender. If the first sentence is approved, the case is closed. All that remains (is the need to write) a letter, asking the Pope to grant the grace. I have never signed a grace. This is the way things will be, they are moving forward. Marie Collins was right on that point; but we, were still on the street. There are two thousand cases to attend to! Thank you.
Greg Burke
Holiness, so now we must go ...
Pope Francis
Who was the other person, who was waiting?
Greg Burke
A Portuguese ...
Pope Francis
Ah, poor girl ...
Greg Burke
Ok ...
Joana Haderer
Agencia portoghese Lusa
Thank you, Holy Father. I want to speak in Spanish because it is easier for me. I want to ask a question about the case of Portugal, but I believe that it applies to many of our western cultures. In Portugal, almost all the Portuguese identify themselves as Catholic, almost all of them, almost 90%; but the way society is organized, the decisions that are made ... many times they are contrary to the direction of the Church. I am referring to marriage and homosexuals, the decriminalization of abortion. Now we are also going to begin discussing euthanasia. How do you see these things?
Pope Francis
I believe that this is a political problem. And also Catholic conscience is not a conscience that sometimes totally belongs to the Church, and also, behind all this, there is no nuanced catechesis, a human catechesis ... That is to say, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is an example of something that is both serious and nuanced. I think that it is the fault of formation and culture. It is curious: in some other regions - I think in Italy, some parts of Latin America - that ... People are very Catholic, but they are anti-clerical ... mangiapreti (anti-priests) who (laugh). This is a phenomenon that arrises, and ...
Joana Haderer
And it is concerning to you?
Pope Francis
Clearly it is a preoccupation. This is the reason why I say to priests - they will have read about it - Run away from clericalism. Because clericalism drives people away. Run away from clericalism, and I add: it is a plague in the Church. But this is also the work of catechesis, awareness, dialogue, including human values. Thank you. I am grateful for your work and for the acuteness of your questions. Thank you.
Greg Burke
Thank you, Holy Father.
Pope Francis
And pray for me, don't forget.
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